TAT Forum

A reader wrote that what would make the Forum more interesting would be:

Hearing from people who are searching—and have questions instead of those providing endless advice and "answers." What challenges they are facing. What their doubts and questions are. How they perceive their path is going. What they are doing in their lives. Where they think they will end up. Etc., etc.

Can you help make the Forum more interesting?

We're trying something a little different this month. Referencing a 9-minute YouTube video of Hermann Hesse’s Quotes You Should Know Before You Get Old, the Reader Commentary question is:

Which one of Hesse’s quotes do you like best (or worse), and why?

Responses follow:

From SK:
Best: "The true profession of a man is to find his way to himself" and
"The deity is within you, not in ideas, and books. Truth is lived, and not taught."

These quotes seem to point out well for self-realization.

From Shawn Nevins:
"Loneliness is the way by which destiny endeavors to lead man to himself."

That instantly reminded me of the misery of failed relationships pushed me into attending a lecture by Mr. Rose and launched my spiritual path. The feeling of being alone in the universe and desperately wanting another person to "share my life with." Only later did I understand that I so desperately wanted another person because I was terrified of facing the emptiness inside myself.

From Alex:
About half way through the video, awareness/attention moved on. There is really no one here for these quotes to resonate with. They’re just more empty words / thoughts arising and falling. Cliches, parodies, heuristics.

Attention gravitates towards the non verbal, or silent, unfolding of what is ... in other words, life itself, reality itself has the best quotes; speaking to no one, on no one’s behalf.

From Patrick K:
I liked many of these quotes. I resonated a lot with his definition of passion as not being spiritual force but a friction between the soul and the outside world. (I am very wary of passion when it arises in me.) Also, I liked his definition of strength being in letting go as opposed to “holding on”, although he said only sometimes it is more strong when we let go. I would say letting go of my holding on is always the stronger thing to do (although this is paradoxical, letting go when it “happens to me” is always stronger as opposed to me “choosing” to let go, which would be me choosing to avoid the tension of carrying the pain or friction a problem causes that is actually a weaker option). Letting go doesn't mean I give up responsibility, but it sees the inner mechanism in me that is grasping and that “inner grasping” is futile. Someone said related to this that “we suffer to the extent that we believe we are in control”. But for me I'll guard control to the death it seems; it has to be taken from me, through life experience and ladderwork (working in groups), and can be helped along by meditation/contemplation.

My favourite quote is “To achieve the possible we must attempt the impossible again and again”. I find this inspiring. In this work chasing self-realisation it seems pie in the sky, yet the more I try, the more I make incremental movements toward that end, clearing away a lot of debris in my way. However, even without self-realisation as a goal, I benefit a lot just from following the processes of self-inquiry and trying to uncover what truth is, by backing away from the untruth. I'm pretty taken just by the process itself to be fair. To ask for more seems greedy, so I'm happy to follow where my vector is taking me and allow whatever happens to take place. My intuition, vector, longing and curiosity will lead me accordingly it seems, and just like what Jim Burns would say, when something falls away, there is always the next thing to be dealt with that arises, and so on and so on. But dealing with the low-hanging fruit gives encouragement that the impossible may one day be faced in a determined, clear-headed and focused way.

From Carsten R:
"The deity is within you, not in ideas and books. Truth is lived, not taught"

The real work is about going within. Of course books may offer excellent and much needed guidance on the journey, but time is generally better spent practising than reading.

So for me this quote is a reminder to choose practice over reading. Reading is the easy, less demanding choice but will not give me what I'm really looking for.

From Mark Cr:
I was not familiar with Hermann Hesse so I did a small bit of reconnaissance to gain an introductory familiarity. There were several quotes that struck me but I chose this one as a like:

"Everything becomes a little different as soon as it is spoken out loud."

Due to my changes in mindset and thought processes in pursuit of Truth, I have been forced into silence among family, friends and business for many years. I am new to TAT, and looking forward to developing exchanges more in line with my life focus. All this time I have been thinking, connecting dots and feeling I knew what I wanted to say if given the chance. Well, my day is now here and I find myself enjoying the opportunity of meeting like-minded people, but when attempting to communicate what I thought I knew, I seem to have realized how much I don't know. Also I don't think I am alone in that challenge. That is why I have chosen this quote above the others, as the quote becomes relevant in every "here and now" of my progress.

From Anima Pundeer:
My favorite quote from Hermann Hesse: “Love your suffering. Do not resist it, do not flee from it. It is only your aversion to it that hurts, nothing else.”

Suffering is an integral part of life; this is a truth that can’t be denied to me. The Sooner you accept it, the easier life becomes. My attention toward Divinity becomes laser focused when my perceived suffering increases. Once, Krishna asked Kunti to ask for a wish from him. She had lived a hard life. She said, please let me suffer more because I only think of you when I suffer.

From Art Ticknor:
I had starred six of the quotes, and three of those have already been cited by other responders. Of the other three, I'll pick "Solitude is independence" as my favorite.

I always had the feeling that if Self-Realization was going to occur for me, it would have to be when I was alone. Solitrary retreats were highlights of my life during my search, and Self-Realization occurred after sunset on the final evening of what turned out to be my last solitary retreat.

From John L:
My general style is pattern-recognition. My favorite book might be Huxley’s “The Perennial Philosophy”, where all the world’s religions are boiled down to their common features. I own a first edition copy; the pride of my library. So, my M.O. is to hear something and see how that compares to some Zen writing, or Gurdjieff/Ouspensky, or Evola/Guenon or Rose, or C.S. Lewis, or Chesterton, Ellul, Alan Watts, Dogen, D.T. Suzuki, Swedenborg, Rumi, etc.

Do I live what they write? I try and I fail, over and over again, and I don’t even understand why I am interested in all this. But I keep returning to it.

FAVORITE: “Theory is knowledge that doesn’t work. Practice is when something works and you don’t know why.” Dogen and others of the Zen school admonishing those who study the sutras. Just sit. Just practice. The answers are within, not within books. I think one of the strangest things I’ve noticed recently is how problems are not solved by the mind, but rather, through some mysterious means, the answers simply arise. Self-remembering and zazen led me to this minor realization. It reminds me of Jacques Ellul’s work “The Technological Society”, where we have taken society and sliced it up into ever thinner slices, and somewhere along the way, we lost sight of the whole. And the whole matters more than the details, but we’ve forgotten that.

From Anonymous:
"Everything becomes a little different as soon as it’s spoken out loud" - Herman Hesse

I love this quote. I feel like I am often "fast-forwarding my karma" lately. Sensing what the magician (my ego) has behind its back this time. By speaking it, I can get to the hidden crevices more easily. I sometimes blurt an embarrassing insight I realized out loud in my car in a fashion that involves profanities or "I can"t believe I didn’t notice that before" and then laugh, or cry, usually both at the same time. Often, I think it’s the last time that particular scenario will try to teach me something, but that is seldom the case.

Also, for example, when I try to write "beautiful" poetry, and then read it out loud, I see how desperate it is, and then also see that the poetry actually sucks. When I really dig deep and dare myself to say the polar opposite of what I feel comfortable saying, then poof "my own wisdom" flows. That insight penetrates more deeply when written or spoken rather than simply kept as a thought. Just more of the same with my ego staying on top of the situation. Which never bodes well for anyone partaking in those snippets of shenanigans.

This brings me to the next quote by Hesse: "Knowledge can be communicated, but not wisdom” (shortened version). Spiritual wisdom itself causes the highest level of learning. Just not the typical book-learning, more the heart-opening kind. This is not as quantifiable as what’s on your typical American resume, yet still super valuable. This wisdom can only be taught by example, born from absorption or transmission. Surreal actually, much like a sci-fi movie. For anyone who has sat with someone who is dwelling in that higher realm, you know what I mean. For those who don’t, they are not like any regular person we meet. Wisdom flowing so strongly within them that as you physically travel to see them there’s an energy field coming through even the fan in your car a few miles away from their location. You in turn intuitively float toward them like a magnet which is also very wise of you, and sci-fi like. Then in front of this person, your heart explodes open and you find yourself mind erased, stunned, often uncontrollably crying, and for no clear reason. At the same time with a happiness you did not think was possible.

Stuff is just plum going down in your soul, even in the air that’s breathed around that person. It feels like something weird is being distributed, and you’re now being infused with love and nectar. Then your mind goes more blank, which you didn’t know was possible, and now you’re off in long stare at a wall contemplating the Bible (which of note, now instantaneously intrigues you, for the first time ever). "What the heck is going on?” (G-rated version of what was actually said) seems to be the only thing you can repeat to yourself, like a consoling mantra, yet the calming down eludes you. It’s beyond words maybe, but at least I know from experience that in that atmosphere, although traditional knowledge escapes us, something most exquisite enters. This kind of wisdom does not just teach, it annihilates you, and when you come up for air again, all that’s left is love. Now that’s unveiled wisdom, real knowledge imparted. Communed, although not typical, but nonetheless…ultimate union.

From Bill K:
“In every truth, the opposite is equally true. A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided.” As I can see, compared to the rest of the assembled quotes, this one suggests he had an insight into life as if he gained a view from up high. It would have taken such an elevated perspective to recognize first that every truth has a paradoxical, opposite truth—paradoxical because it could not be seen as such from "'"down here." Second, he recognized that in this relative dimension, both a fact and its opposite could never both be conceived as true; hence, in our medium, all truths must be one-sided. Until we, too, ascend to gain better clarity.

Q: What are your thoughts on this month's reader commentary? Please your feedback.

Richard Rose described a spiritual path as living one's life aimed at finding the meaning of that life. Did you find anything relevant to your life or search in this month's TAT Forum?

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Founder's Wisdom

Richard Rose (1917-2005) established the TAT Foundation
in 1973 to encourage people to work together on what
he considered to be the "grand project" of spiritual work.

Jacob's Ladder © 2001 Richard Rose. See this transcript of a talk on the topic by Rose.

Homing Ground Update … A spot on earth where people can do retreats and hold meetings; where the emphasis is on friendship and the search. June 2023: We're now 6% of the way to meeting our 2023 fundraising goal of $15,750, all of which donations came from our stalwart monthly contributors. Thank you! However, for those of you that are not monthly contributors, yet read the Forum or attend meetings, know that at our current 1% rate of increase per month, we won't make our goal. A few dollars a month from just a portion of you who read this each month would make a big difference, so please consider helping out. Thanks to all of you for making TAT the extraordinary organization it is. Sincerely, Shawn Nevins PS: Monthly contributions are a great way to support the TAT Center if making a larger one-time donation seems too much. If you're so inspired, click the Donate button below, then check the box for "Make this a monthly donation" as in the example below: Let's bring this to life! "The job is upon us," Richard Rose said, "and it is worthwhile." To contribute to the TAT Center, mail a check made out to the TAT Foundation to: TAT Foundation PO Box 3402 Roxboro, NC 27573 Big checks, little checks, all are welcome. Or use the PayPal link above (though we lose 2.2% of your donation to PayPal fees). * See photos and more on the Homing Ground page. * In friendship, Shawn Nevins on behalf of the TAT Trustees

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