TAT Forum

A reader wrote that what would make the Forum more interesting would be:

Hearing from people who are searching—and have questions instead of those providing endless advice and "answers." What challenges they are facing. What their doubts and questions are. How they perceive their path is going. What they are doing in their lives. Where they think they will end up. Etc., etc.

Can you help make the Forum more interesting?

The Reader Commentary question for this month, suggested by the Convictions & Concerns in the January 2023 TAT Forum:

What do you see when you watch the mind's activity?

Responses follow:

From Michael R:
I see the human experience. Thoughts arise, define, and react to other thoughts, emotions, and perceptions. Feelings and emotions arise, color, and react to other thoughts, feelings, and perceptions. Perceptions arise, are interpreted, and thought/feeling reacts according to that interpretation. It’s a whole web of reactions to reactions to reactions ad infinitum. Part of that reaction pattern is what gets called “me,” but from all evidence that’s merely another thought-based distinction and nothing more. This body/mind reaction pattern has its own intelligence, it learns, and reacts differently just as a leaf turns toward the sun, for a time, until it becomes the ground for new life again. What a show.

From Anonymous:
Incessant, automated, mechanical thoughts and feelings arising from mechanisms made to serve the organism in its quest for the survival of it and its clan. Each thought and feeling comes paired with a thought that binds and creates identification. These are thoughts of the form: “…and *I* thought that,” or “…and *I* decided that,” or “…and *I* felt that.”

There is also a readily available sense of self, in the form of an “I exist” thought. This can also be seen. Sometimes, the observer that sees all this can also be seen, which is confusing. What is seeing all of this?

The mind activity never stops. I imagine the world would disappear if it did. Just like a dream world would collapse if there wasn’t dream activity.

From Brian M:
At times there is the bad stuff with worry, predictions, planning, caution, undermining others, undermining myself, claiming, labelling, condemning, demanding. Thoughts slip in at a such a speed that for most of my life I have without question believed this voice as the ultimate authority.

On the good side I see that the mind can bring some useful reminders for work, for ideas for things to do and inspiration.

When I see the mind's activity now I see that there is much more going on than just my mind's activity. There are all the senses too, there is awareness. Is it as simple as less of identifying as mind/personality/ego/me then it may be possible to perceive more of our true nature?

From William R:
Let us agree that, by “see,” we mean observe or witness. When I turn the attention of the observer upon the mind’s activity, the thing I most commonly see is the relentless tide of thoughts. Thoughts seem to come from all directions, with an insistence that can be annoying. Thoughts are sometimes confusing and painful, thoughts can be an affront to the ego, but thoughts are also pleasant ruminations, reflections upon the gentler and more elysian sensibilities associated with fine days and loved ones.

I have noticed over decades of observation that many persistent and insistent thoughts seem to be entangled with pain that lingers from past psychological injuries. These injuries appear to reside as memories, stored practically anywhere in the somatic construct as physical pain, and the associated thoughts typically surge into the limen at unpredictable moments. And there are emotional experiences tied to such thoughts, with anger and grief being common.

There are many times when I become very aware of holding my attention in silence as I listen to another person speak, so that I might truly hear and, hopefully, genuinely appreciate whatever the other’s experience is in the moment. This may or may not be an inborn quality in my psychology, but it is certainly a quality I have consciously cultivated for most of my adult life.

There is also the truism that what one puts, allows, or takes into the mind is what the mind processes. I am a life-long practitioner of music, and lover of the theories and mathematics of physics, and I pursue the study and practice of these things for pleasure and engagement with life. I also appreciate the arts and great literature and find pleasure in giving mind space to these. And of course, I have a lifetime of seeking knowledge, wisdom, and enlightenment, and, as a consequence, the associated thoughts percolate constantly in the periphery of consciousness.

There are plenty of times when I turn the observing process upon itself, to hold the somatic mind silent, and I witness The Light. This is my meditation, and I engage in such meditation spontaneously throughout any day. It is a paradoxical state of mind, both quiet and still, and exhilarating. And I venture to say, it is my anchor to sanity.

Recently I have become aware that my most essential ego drive is to attain perfection of being, to become the perfect vessel of God’s Grace. And, let’s face it, I cannot know what that means. So I realize, I don’t really know anything at all. But it strikes me that, as long as I am scrupulous and honest, it’s a pretty good aspiration.

From Tina N:
A seeming flow of data (sounds, colors, sensations, etc.) organized by context (memories or new experiences) into symbols (words, pictures, etc.) with meaning. The mind's activity seems to fall into different modes: focused attention, wandering to past and future, observation, and receptiveness.

From Shawn Nevins:
The smarty-pants answer is "everything" (i.e. everything is mind activity). However, referencing the everyday baseline experience of mental activity is more useful. When I'm more laminated to the mind's activity, mostly there is a verbal narrative, a running commentary on the past, present, and future. What I hear is internal noise, which if broadcast on a bulletin board above the head would be excellent proof that we're all insane robots. At that point, the mind's activity is a voice called "me."

The more I shift to observation, however, the more the verbal narrative transitions to a visual phenomena. I "see" the commentary rise up and fall away. It's a "seeing" of the internal noise that Bob Fergeson captures in his phrase "the Listening Attention." At that point, most of the mind's activity is observed phenomena that is "not-me." The background of that "not-me" activity is another mind activity called observation, which I claim as "me."

Not content to leave well-enough alone, the unfortunate further observation is that "me" can observe "me" observing "not-me." But one observer is always rising up while the other is fading away.

But the sense of "me" observing is also only mind activity.

Some believe there is an unbroken awareness upon which all this mind activity is happening. Some believe we are that unbroken awareness. But that belief is also mind activity.

Every-thing is mind activity.

From Patrick K:
It always seems to be thoughts in response to my longings. If I have chores to do or possibly a project which I have broken down to a subset of little projects, I generally am thinking how to navigate this job in the most efficient, productive way. Right now I feel that I have "the master game" (a term used by Robert S. De Ropp from his book, The Master Game: Pathways to Higher Consciousness) as my top feeling-desire agenda, so all other jobs like the aforementioned jobs get dealt in the most proficient manner so as not be taking up too much mental RAM. All this happens automatically in alignment with my force of longing, will and determination.

Then there are the thoughts of adversity which I face. These thoughts I put into two categories, (1) Conscience and (2) Adversity of travelling the road less travelled (expression of the road less travelled comes from the title of Scott Peck's book, The Road Less Travelled). Conscience I see in terms of how I feel about myself. How do I feel about how I sense I am behaving in all aspects of my life? These thoughts will come from feelings with a negative vibe about them where something is just not adding up where I am blind to some problematic area of myself that I need to deal with. Adversity of travelling the road less travelled is where I struggle to navigate the "gordian knot" of keeping one foot in a spiritual path and another in my worldly survival life (this gordian knot analogy was taken from Rose's book The Albigen Papers). These thoughts from the second category of adversity can be explained also of having my third-person view of myself (how I see myself as I imagine that others see me, my public image) being reflected back to me.

From Anima Pundeer:
Nothing much goes on in the mental field these days. Usually reactive thoughts to whatever is going on outside. Emotions are a big part of the mental realm. Nothing seems to stick for too long, though. When I was younger, it felt like I always rode a big thought-emotion wave with deep crusts and troughs. I think this is the perk of getting old ... not much unnecessary inner turmoil. There is an underlying feeling of wonderment toward the universe.

From Mark W:
When I watch the mind’s activity, I see a menagerie more like the literal definition of the word than I like to admit; a collection of wild ‘animals’ kept for exhibition. In my case, it’s a self-exhibition mostly made of seemingly random thoughts, sensations, feelings, memories, emotions, fears, and desires programmed for survival to seek maximum pleasure and avoid pain. The various sequences and combinations of these critters often result in squabbling to see which ones appear in the stampeding identification with experience available for my viewing pleasure, or displeasure. It is generally difficult to intentionally influence the stampede to slow down enough to observe for very long without being trampled into imagination, memories, and reverie. Fortunately, the stampede is sometimes disrupted by an unforeseen force that calms the herd enough to reveal a new and different view having some significance or poignancy. My intention is to find a way to increase the frequency and depth of such views or insights despite the countervailing momentum of the mind’s activity.

From Gloria N:
I have been observing my mind for many years or to be more accurate, I have been observing the wholeness of this human life: mind—heart—body.

First, through the contemplation and reflection of my experience as I moved from adolescence to adulthood; later on through a meditaion practice that has engaged mindful observation as part of a Buddhist practice.

What I have noticed on a regular basis is a whirlwind of thoughts that often weaves stories. They get quite intense when I am having physical and emotional pain, pulling me into believing a particular narrative. Fear is a salient feeling in this dynamic. I can feel the sensations in my body that I identify with fearfulness. Often the story adds to the sensations that I am experiencing. Sometimes I forget and become the story itself. My practices of meditation, contemplation and observation usually help me find the way back again and again. I have found that this process of losing and finding my way out of the storyline has diminished over time as I catch myself more often than not in its creation. My mind is both perilous and curious. If I engage curiosity it takes me down the path of non-judgemental observation, unfolding fresher insights. Of course all of this is a story as well as I become aware while writing. I am okay with this aspect of mind. I can see its usefulnes and beauty.

The weaving of direct observation and language is inevitable in the human dimension. I observe myself thinking: Is this an assumption? I can see how assumptions underline my conclusions. My mind looks for a concept to tie all of this together: "Thinking, thinking I remember as I edit this answer."

Finally, I reflect on the intimation of the container of all experience. What Heidegger refers to as a "clearing." I say intimation because to say otherwise objectifies that which is the ultimate "no-thingness," the absolute...the beyond. I observe my attempt to be clever with words to describe that which is truly beyond words but it's right here not out there. I feel presence is the closest I can get. I feel the sweetness of the heart here. I observe my remembering of times when these intimations happened: Going out on a clear, sunny morning when I was around 20 and feeling the moment as the eternal now. A question that I had been pondering at the time. I remember not remembering as I was coming out of a deep experience of meditation. I also remember the momentary collapse of time and space in the grocery store parking lot. Of course all of this is remembrance—that necessary but often obscuring—dimension of mind. I think: "Is there really anything like pure, direct experience?"

I observe a thought, a feeling, a sensation occuring in the here now. My path of observation has taken me to the process or method of RAIN, bringing compassion to my feelings and body. Feelings such as fear and grief arise often. My thoughts spin in multiple directions. I bring my attention to the body, where the feelings dwell and allow them to be and move on. The thought of disbelief, flashing danger as I observe painful sensations as they move on. The thoughts move on as well.

From Bill K:
Typical scenario: I remember I am here, present, then recognize I have just remembered my presence, followed by a short period of quiet, no activity, just watching, and again I recognize I am quiet, just watching. Eventually, thought suddenly appears, then a second and third as the quiet and presence is partially or totally forgotten for those few seconds. And just as suddenly, quiet and presence is remembered again as thought stream stops, and the three thoughts are recollected. I recognize the act of recollecting those three thoughts. Eventually I forget again, only this time falling into a sleepy stream of thoughts, perhaps countless, as I am not fully aware of some (real sleep?) and sleepily-aware of others that I can recall; then I become present once again and recollect, once returned into the quiet and present. And again it is recognized that I awoke, and tried to recollect whatever is retained in memory as well as becoming quiet and present again.

I've concluded this pulling back or stepping back ... the act of recognizing is an honest effort of free will as well as attempt to go back in the direction of where I come from.

From Art Ticknor:
My observed experience in the inner world of mind-movement is largely unexciting these days. :-)

During my seeking years (decades), there were occasional mini-satoris such as seeing that I was watching my thought stream as it was occurring, getting out-of-the-blue, seemingly instantaneous new views (which my mind would immediately try to process/interpret), and seeing mental processes such as decision-making and intuition in slow-motion detail.

Since self-realization in 2004, when existential angst was blown out (nirvana'd), I haven't felt the need to check back with my absolute point of reference other than on the very occasional times when someone has asked me a question that I didn't want to give an immediate, off-the-cuff response to.

From Paul Constant:
In yonder years on my spiritual path, I had convinced myself that my mind and my thoughts and emotions were my enemy! I was far off the mark. These days, here is what I see when I watch my mind:
-- I see myself struggling with life's dilemmas, and my mind working on solutions.
-- I see how I jump to conclusions without sufficient information.
-- I often feel joy and satisfaction but also love, sorrow, anger, and just about every other human emotion when life calls for it.
-- I feel my body sending me messages and my mind attempting to interpret, often feebly.
-- During the grander moments, I immerse in the Great Silence, and then see my mind trying to understand, always without success.

From Brett S:
I remember being on a retreat once where things were intense enough that I perceived that some thoughts arise from nowhere, or at least from a place I couldn't see. This was amazing, because it "told" me that there was this "place" where all these thoughts are stored or maybe nothing like that but at least I could see that they were "parachuting in" in a way I'd never seen before from "somewhere" I couldn't see. Similarly, they go somewhere I haven't consciously seen. I also sometimes get the sense that there are thoughts "waiting in the wings" that, if I turn my attention to them, they bloom as full-fledged thoughts like the others, but if I ignore them they recede back into the shadows. And writing this, I noticed that certain words seemed to push my attention in the way of one idea, and other words made those ideas "feel" further away. I also notice that some thoughts cause reactions in the body. I think most of my motivation for being on a spiritual path has to do with those kind of thoughts because they are the ones that can feel most threatening to a sense of "control." In our local self-inquiry group tonight, someone talked about how many if not all thoughts imply, as some kind of sub-thought, that there is an "I" that created the thought. I've seen something like that, too.

Q: What are your thoughts on this month's reader commentary? Please your feedback.

Richard Rose described a spiritual path as living one's life aimed at finding the meaning of that life. Did you find anything relevant to your life or search in this month's TAT Forum?

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Founder's Wisdom

Richard Rose (1917-2005) established the TAT Foundation
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he considered to be the "grand project" of spiritual work.

Jacob's Ladder © 2001 Richard Rose. See this transcript of a talk on the topic by Rose.

Homing Ground Update … A spot on earth where people can do retreats and hold meetings; where the emphasis is on friendship and the search. March 2023: We're now 2% of the way to meeting our 2023 fundraising goal of $15,750, all of which donations came from our stalwart monthly contributors. Thank you! As a reminder, below is the list of needs and goals for the TAT Center for 2023. Some of these can be accomplished by stopping by the TAT Center and lending our caretaker a hand. Others need funding. Sand and refinish back porch. Build roof over back porch and steps on the West side. Install 4 additional posts ground to ceiling for more support for the 3-season room above. Additional electrical circuit installed for the Rose Room. Additional gravel on driveways. Repair and preventive maintenance of one 3-season room sky light. Improve chimney flashing on roof. Add/improve insulation above the end 1-person bedroom and the wall separating it from the 1-car garage. Install media filter capability for first floor furnace which should help all allergy suffers. $450 estimate on 3/22. Some kind of AC for all three rooms on the third floor. At least three space heaters for the third floor. A window AC and a space heater for the 3-season room. A stick vac to vacuum the stairs. Potential Future Projects (i.e aspirations!) A cabin for isolation retreats The "octa-pavilion"—a large, detached meeting room located in the woods behind the house A covered patio extending off of the house Thanks to all of you for making TAT the extraordinary organization it is. Sincerely, Shawn Nevins PS: Monthly contributions are a great way to support the TAT Center if making a larger one-time donation seems too much. If you're so inspired, click the Donate button below, then check the box for "Make this a monthly donation" as in the example below: Let's bring this to life! "The job is upon us," Richard Rose said, "and it is worthwhile." To contribute to the TAT Center, mail a check made out to the TAT Foundation to: TAT Foundation PO Box 3402 Roxboro, NC 27573 Big checks, little checks, all are welcome. Or use the PayPal link above (though we lose 2.2% of your donation to PayPal fees). * See photos and more on the Homing Ground page. * In friendship, Shawn Nevins on behalf of the TAT Trustees

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