TAT Forum

A reader wrote that what would make the Forum more interesting would be:

Hearing from people who are searching—and have questions instead of those providing endless advice and "answers." What challenges they are facing. What their doubts and questions are. How they perceive their path is going. What they are doing in their lives. Where they think they will end up. Etc., etc.

Can you help make the Forum more interesting?

Thanks to Bob Cergol for a pair of Reader Commentary questions for the December TAT Forum:

What challenges are you facing? What are your doubts?

Responses follow.

From Brett S:
My challenges are about a question I’ve been asked dozens of times by TAT friends: what do I want? I thought that what I wanted was a life that I thought gave me the best chance of a spiritual realization: keeping my obligations to a minimum in order to have time to attend retreats, remove distractions, and generally spend more time on activities I see as intentionally spiritual. Having done that, I found that the results aren’t what I expected them to be: I feel more than ever that there’s something missing in my life, but am confused about what that is, and have gotten depressed about that confusion to the point of feeling unmotivated to do the spiritual work I set out to do. That leads me to my doubts.

My doubts are whether my strong feeling that “something’s missing” is about not being honest with myself about the kind of life I really want, or if it’s about realizing that life isn’t going to give me the safety, certainty, and satisfaction I’m looking for. In other words, am I lying to myself about wanting my life to revolve around spiritual seeking? Or am I lying to myself about being able to escape existential angst?

What I want might be the same in both scenarios: an identity I can rely on, and an ability to deal with change and to accept death. I want these things because I believe not having them creates suffering and conflict, and because I think having them will help me live a life of honesty and integrity.

There’s something fishy to me about living a spiritual life because of what I hope it will give me. But there’s also something disingenuous about not doing whatever I can to get what I want.

These challenges and doubts have at times felt unbearable. But recently I’ve become more hopeful that intensely caring about them might lead me to making a choice I can live with. Basically, they can show me what I really want. Thanks for the question.

From Tess Hughes:
What challenges me is my aging body.
I doubt I'll survive it 🤣🙃

*

TAT Press publishes Tess's This Above All: A Journey of Self-Discovery. You can contact Tess by .

From Josh M:
My current challenge is maintaining focus and not dissipating energy while also balancing a relationship with someone who is supportive of spiritual quest, but doesn’t share the same intensity-drive.

My doubts are that I could be wasting precious time and energy.

From Isaac H:
My challenges include a lack of faith that I can muster what is required, and the normal mundane lack of motivation and energy. My doubts include the doubt that anything that I can do can help, that this can happen for me, and something more like a fear, where since I don't know what the ultimate context is, there is a doubt that the experience that Finders label "Self-Realization" is not just spiritual suicide; I doubt if it is something that I actually want, or can want. But "I" continue(s).

From Patrick K:
Currently, I am pushing to do regular live meetings with other seekers, post the covid restrictions. The challenges are there for sure. We are relatively lucky enough here in Ireland that there is an interested core group, albeit a small group. I find it challenging to advertise this work beyond the current web of the TAT foundation. Rapport is a big challenge for me. I have an aggressive, forceful manner that may not be most conducive to rapport with other seekers, but I am also sensitive, so maybe I am not too out of balance. I have doubts about myself, which I sum up as fear/negativity. Fear/negativity I sense as cowardice, which has to be faced head-on.

From Art Ticknor:
I continue to do what I've been doing for may years, which is to try helping seekers attain their most heartfelt desires. I do that through personal emails, email confrontation groups, a local self-inquiry discussion group, TAT gatherings, and intensive retreats ... and an occasional book. My challenges are in decreasing energy as I age, which has led me to minimal proactive "teaching" and relying on reactions to seekers' questions and complaints.

My doubts are whether what I'm doing helps or hinders, but they don't seem to impede my actions. Many of the folks I try to help don't seem to have found clarity about what they want most from their lives, and therefore they're more like corks on the ocean than vectors away from untruth. Perhaps the best I can do is just to love them.

*

TAT Press publishes three of Art's books: Solid Ground of Being: A Personal Story of the Impersonal, Beyond Relativity: Transcending the Split Between Knower & Known and Sense of Self: The Source of All Existential Suffering? and Always Right Behind You: Parables & Poems of Love & Completion co-authored with Anima Pundeer.

From Eric C:
“Can I handle the seasons of my life?” I don’t know.

When I listen to Stevie Nicks singing that line in "Landslide,"" I feel my life built around role-identities—son, friend, brother, member of a community, director, friend. I relate to the fear of changing, of letting go of the way I have held those identities, of loved ones, of the capabilities on my own body and mind.

There is doubt that I will be able to “hold it all together,” that I will most of the time have the proper perspective, or see and act on what is most important. At the same time there is also a basic trust in life.

From Bill K:
I am my biggest challenge. Everything else in life was in the form of something I could grasp, that I could separate and define, was able to be measured and had definite strategies as solutions, or that could often be solved with dollars and cents. But 'I am' is too close for any of those, because I am is that me who had met or addressed every other challenge in life. Although this me could be developed, it cannot itself improve its ability to see itself except through a process of elimination of what it identifies itself to be. 'I am' is a challenge only if I aspire to discover what could be more real than 'I am.'

'I am' afraid that identifying the one who wishes to discover something more real or solid than what 'I am' may still be a fractured part of the original 'I am.' My doubts are based upon any personal effort that would be consciously or unconsciously self-defeating. Perhaps the only hope is guidance from outside, or from inside that is not the 'I am' that is itself the challenge. This requires an elevation or transcendence of some part of my mental machinery to some higher ability without identity.

From Mark C:
My current challenges are householder challenges as my father passed away about 22 months ago and my mother about 45 days ago. I have been the executor for both of their estates, and between that and the fact that I have had an ongoing pattern of taking on too much in my life, things have become quite muddy on the path. I have noticed that the recent emphasis on death has forced me to contemplate the "Who am I?" and "What's this really all about?" questions all the more.

Sometimes I feel like I am a hamster on a wheel now, and there is this feeling that it's all just things happening to this character. The feeling is so great that I almost want to do things "wrong" just to see what happens, whatever "wrong" would be. I seem to be paying more attention to the whole picture of what is taking place around me, and I have noticed more and more synchronicities taking place, sometimes very inexplicably. I feel like I have used my mind to what seems like the limits that it is going to help me, and I guess you could say that I have much more doubt in my ability to figure anything out. I try to pay more attention to my feelings and my intuition, but the intuition comes of its own accord, and not when I think it should.

It seems like I doubt quite a bit now, but there is still this need to color within the lines. Shawn Pethel made a comment at the last TAT weekend about how he had purposely gone to sleep during meditation and then would usually come to with some sort of insight. My immediate thought was that this was "the wrong way," that people were not supposed to go to sleep during meditation, but the following thought was, "What makes it wrong?" So while it appears that my doubt is increasing, the mind still stands guard on "how things are supposed to be."

From Anima Pundeer:
I find life is a challenge and doubt is sacred. Here is my list of top 5 challenges in life:
1. Consistency: I find it hard to be consistent with body-mind maintenance activities that I must do everyday. For instance exercising everyday, though I know it is essential, is the first one to get canceled in case something else comes up. And, no matter what, ‘something else’ always comes up! Now, in my moment of inspiration, I make exercising my topmost priority. It varies from taking Toby (my dog) for a walk to going to the gym for a spinning class.
   Doubt: If I am really committed to having an optimally functioning body-mind, there shouldn’t be any inner debate.
2. ANTS: Automatic negative thoughts. I learnt this term from Dr. Daniel G. Amen (Psychiatrist, Brain disorder specialist) when I was researching how ADD/ADHD affects life. Cynical, gloomy, complaining thoughts that get triggered by something (usually people, work) in life. Depending on the thought, certain hormones get triggered in our brain that can make us feel good or bad. If not mindful, I can get pretty consumed by these. I have found meditation and breathing exercises to be helpful in maintaining my mental hygiene.
   Doubt: Am I aware of my underlying expectations of how my life should be.
3. Discipline: I did not like the word ‘discipline’ during my younger years. Pretty soon I realized how my ‘spontaneous’ way of living caused problems in the long run. Now I try to have discipline, that I call my simple system, in place to ensure that my inner and outer house remains in order.
   Doubt: Do I feel entitled to my ‘mood of the moment’ to ignore what I need to be doing or what I said I would do? Makes me lose confidence in myself when I give into my whimsical moods.
4. Prioritizing: Yes, I have to admit I have a hard time remembering what is important. I have let dirty dishes take priority over taking my kids to the park. I also get carried away in the moment. I have missed appointments in spite of putting alarms and reminders because I got busy talking, or worse, checking texts/emails at the last minute. I have spent hours aimlessly watching YouTube videos.
   Doubt: Am I clear about the difference between urgent and important? Cyber world has more control over me than I would like to believe?
5. Hoarding: Confession - I am a book hoarder. I have a hard time letting go of the books that I have accumulated. I also like cookbooks with colorful pictures. Once in a while I try a recipe but mostly I love to read recipes. When I loan books, I expect them back and if not, I bug people to return my precious books.
   Doubt: Is it my love of books or my inability to part with what brought joy to me once? Have I realized that the book has served its purpose and I need to let it go now?

From Dan G:
There are somatic life balancing challenges. For example, how can I possibly save enough money for a house when the prices of houses are too damn high? Or how the heck do I get done 30 hours of things to do every day?

There are intuition challenges, too. For example, is my current interpretation of how to resolve dissatisfaction going in a good direction? Is a thought I should ask myself Tess’s question, “Do you feel inferior to others who own more than you?” such as who own a house, something I should decide to do, or is the thought I feel tired and I need a different inspiration more on track? Which voices should I commit to act on to save myself? Intuiting the truth of my beliefs as they change minute-by-minute is a challenge.

Another common intuition challenge is understanding messages from higher on the spiritual ladder. I often wonder how exact or how inexact a statement is. For example, Tess asserts, “How you describe yourself is the clue to your identifications and your identifications are the causes of all your suffering.”

Is that “all your” true for me? Is it all her suffering was resolved by fixing identification and I’m special with extra suffering? Are my somatic challenges real sources of real suffering? Or if these challenges are happening to an imaginary being, might they be only imagined suffering? Are identifications the source of all my “real” suffering? Do I really believe her assertion or do I really believe my case is an exception?

And what exactly is an “identification?” Is there something specific she’s pointing at that’s different from other things people might call identification, or is she saying this is a case specificity and precision isn’t the point, the truth sensor intuition is what matters? Do I understand it well enough, or am I missing some key perception? Do I know my identifications she means or do I not know them?

Those are a couple intuition-type challenges I face. I wonder if there are any challenges, I, as consciousness of the mind face? Maybe the limits to what I see. The mind lives in a state of belief, never knowledge. It’s like a constant state of sea-sickness I try to not think about. Nothing is proven as realer than a dream. I need to be something other than the individual viewpoint I seem to be, but I’m not conscious in the mind of ever being anything other than a viewer of mind. Is the fact I need that, proof that my identity as trapped and sourced by a mind isn’t the complete truth? Is there an unconscious view that informs my nostalgia and longing? Is the view not the viewer, or am I what suffers?

Q: What are your thoughts on this month's reader commentary? Please your feedback.

Richard Rose described a spiritual path as living one's life aimed at finding the meaning of that life. Did you find anything relevant to your life or search in this month's TAT Forum?

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Founder's Wisdom

Richard Rose (1917-2005) established the TAT Foundation
in 1973 to encourage people to work together on what
he considered to be the "grand project" of spiritual work.

Jacob's Ladder © 2001 Richard Rose. See this transcript of a talk on the topic by Rose.

Homing Ground Update … A spot on earth where people can do retreats and hold meetings; where the emphasis is on friendship and the search. December 2022: Thanks to our stalwart monthly donors and a significant one-time donation, we ended November at 57.7% of the fundraising goal for 2022! That's an amazing leap forward and leaves only $16,491 to reach our goal for the year. I visited the TAT Center for the first time in November, and it was a wonderful experience to see the building filled with friends old and new. Yet, there are a number of small projects that will make the Center an even better gathering place. If everyone who reads this note donates $100 this December, we could reach our goal. I'll lead that year-end charge and make a donation right now. Thanks to all of you for making TAT the extraordinary organization it is. Sincerely, Shawn Nevins PS: Monthly contributions are a great way to support the TAT Center if making a larger one-time donation seems too much. If you're so inspired, click the Donate button below, then check the box for "Make this a monthly donation" as in the example below: Let's bring this to life! "The job is upon us," Richard Rose said, "and it is worthwhile." To contribute to the TAT Center, mail a check made out to the TAT Foundation to: TAT Foundation PO Box 3402 Roxboro, NC 27573 Big checks, little checks, all are welcome. Or use the PayPal link above (though we lose 2.2% of your donation to PayPal fees). * See photos and more on the Homing Ground page. * In friendship, Shawn Nevins on behalf of the TAT Trustees

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