November 2023 TAT Forum

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These are rather general definitions however, and the word “magic” stands in for a whole variety of actual practices. This is also a more Eurocentric understanding of magic, and we might say that the Euro-descendant Industrial culture has the least sophisticated understanding of magic in the world, due to the common belief being that it isn’t a real thing. Every culture, including this culture, has practices that can be called “magic,” and they are used for many different purposes, from Southern root workers using High John the Conqueror to help draw luck in gambling, to ceremonial magicians invoking their Holy Guardian Angel, to Hindus using mantras to help bring about a marriage partner. It might be fair to say that much magic is used for things that haven’t been successfully accomplished through ordinary means, though it can also be used to grease the wheels when starting any ordinary endeavor. Thus, magic can be aimed at gaining money, attention from desired sexual partners, and harming enemies, as well as towards the cultivation of wisdom and understanding and the transformation of the operator. It can also be for forming relationship with beings that aren’t entirely physical, such as what are called angels, spirits of the land, ancestors, deities, or celestial intelligences. In most contexts, magic is used to help one live a good, complete life, and to manifest one’s desires, whether those are of sex, money, or wisdom. The classic manual of Vedic Astrology Brihat Parasara Hora Sastra says that “to fulfill the desire for tranquility, the desire for prosperity, good intelligence, rainfall, longevity, the desire to be well-nourished and complete, rituals are practiced” (tr. Freedom Cole, Science of Light).

In the West, there has often been a division of magic into “White and Black” and “High and Low.” This is a bit reductive, considering the breadth of actual magical practices in the world, but we can say that generally there is magic aimed at satisfying the lower levels of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, and those more focused on spiritual development and wisdom, which is more easily accomplished after those other needs are met. One can also differentiate between magic focused on blessing and healing, and hostile and malevolent magic. Some people lump all magic aimed at supplying things like wealth and relationships into “black” magic, but that just shows their lack of awareness outside their own economic class. When somebody isn’t able to get the things they need through normal means, of course they may turn to magic, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Wisdom may also be a higher desire than sex, but it is still a desire for the “self” in the subject-object plane to experience, and contemplating the nature of reality is a luxury for many people who have to work multiple jobs to keep a roof over their head.

Richard Rose, in The Direct-Mind Experience (DME), outlines 6 types of magic, the first dealing with sleight-of-hand, the second with “somatic or protoplasmic energy” such as the chi used by martial artists, the third being “miracles of faith” which require faith from the magician as well as the affected, whether in faith healing or witchcraft. The fourth is “mental forms” such as “hypnosis, zapping, psychokinesis and so forth.” The fifth is the magic dealing with “entities” such as those invoked by goetic magicians, and the sixth is “supramental” magic, using “spiritual quantum energy.” He also admits that “there are some other categories as well.”

There are many other categories we could get into, such as the difference between psychic ability and magical skill per se, but for now let us touch on why the spiritual seeker may want to study magic. For one, studying a system of magic, such as the Golden Dawn system for instance, is a great way to train the mind through the development of will, imagination and concentration. In many ways, classic 19th-20th century ceremonial magic traditions are very similar to yogic and tantric systems in India and Tibet, and are just as valid forms of training. Practicing ceremonies, meditation and divination every day helps develop the will, strengthen, direct, and sharpen the mind, as well as awaken more subtle senses. This sort of practice, in the course of developing the will, also helps transform negative habits into positive habits.

Another reason to practice magic is to confront unacknowledged beliefs about the self and the world. Most people born in the West are indoctrinated from an early age into a belief in material-reductionism, where the physical reality is the only reality. Experiences that contradict these deeply held, unconscious convictions help loosen the mind from being stuck in limiting beliefs about what is actually going on. Believing that “magic” is categorically false is just as ludicrous as believing everything everybody who claims to have magical powers says.

Dion Fortune, in the classic work of 20^th century occult philosophy The Cosmic Doctrine, says that her teachings are “to train the mind, not to inform it.” In the same way, each esoteric system has a number of worlds or planes of manifestation, from the 14 lokas of esoteric Hinduism, to the 9 worlds of the Norse Pagans, to the 10 sephiroth of the Kabbalah … these are different languages for talking about the same sort of phenomena. In the August 2023 issue of the TAT Forum, Art Ticknor expresses a similar sort of multi-plane cosmology when he writes: “Objects in the outer world, the world of our five senses, are heavier—more ponderable—than objects in the middle world of our thoughts and other mind-movement, while the latter are closer to the inner world of our true being or essence.” Materialist doctrine only believes in one plane: the physical. If you don’t see how absurd such a belief is, your convictions haven’t been thoroughly tested. These planes, and the entities that inhabit them, are not really that mystical or frou-frou. In the plane of “thoughts and other mind-movement,” which an occultist might call the “astral plane” (the plane of thoughts, images, and emotions), thoughts are entities. Again, this is a way of talking about what is going on, but the reality is much more complicated.

Many practices that we may consider “magic” in parts of the USA or Europe, are just a matter of course throughout much of the world, such as honoring ancestors, land spirits, and other beneficial deities. These sorts of practices acknowledge the more subtle planes and are a way of keeping friendly relations with these beings who affect our lives more than we care to think. In this way, these sorts of rites, as well as purification rites like banishing rituals, cleansing baths, and limpias, help keep our psychic ecosystem healthy. There are entities out there (or in here, if you prefer) who parasitically feed on human energy. There are also many traditional ways of removing them, which we consider magical in this culture. Astral parasites are in many ways no worse than ticks, but I have also known many people to suffer for decades after the bite of a tick without the correct diagnosis and treatment. I have also known multiple people who have died from depression, drug abuse and mental instability, the victim of powerfully negative thought patterns and destructive habits.

Practicing magic can also help satisfy needs lower on Maslow’s hierarchy, or clear up problems that are distracting one from deeper spiritual practice. For instance, any well-trained Vedic astrologer should be able to tell what archetypal forces (represented by the planets) are causing problems in their client’s life, and be able to give them remedies such as mantras or rituals to clear up those problems, thus allowing their client to devote more of their bandwidth to higher spiritual pursuits. Just as somebody would go to a doctor if they are sick and don’t know what to do, Vedic astrologers are karmic doctors, working on the more subtle levels to diagnose and treat imbalances in the higher/inner planes.

The practice of divination, astrology and ritual also helps us work with the subtle flows of the universe and give us the ability to tack our sails into the prevailing winds to get where we want to go. You wouldn’t want to open a restaurant the week before the country goes into a lockdown, or buy a house at the peak of a housing bubble; and in the same way, paying attention to the subtle currents, and practicing the correct rituals, allows us to make the most of our energy and effort.

In the January 2021 edition of the TAT Forum, Anima Pundeer outlined 10 steps to getting one’s house in order, and preparing the relative mind for the absolute. In short, a magical practice can help with many of these steps, from keeping the mind sharp, to maintaining financial stability.

In most cultures, there are people who specialize in exorcism, in feng shui or vaastu, in divination or astrology, in spiritual healing, and in a variety of other “magical” trades. The spiritual seeker has no need to master any of these, but it’s good to know people who do, and there are more basic practices that one can do to keep their subtle houses in order.

There are several kinds of magical practices that I can recommend for the average person which include: 1.) some form of meditation, which keeps the mind sharp; 2.) a cleansing ritual of some sort, such as a magical bath, banishing ritual, or limpia; 3.) the construction of an ancestor altar (just some pictures of deceased relatives) and offering them food/water/incense/candles, say, every new moon; 4.) a daily form of divination practice, such as tarot cards or runes, or even just trying to intuit what will happen in the day based on feelings or dreams; 4.) some form of energy work, such as the Middle Pillar after the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram; or even tai chi. These are just a few suggestions of simple practices that have outsized effects.

However, if you want to study magic in depth, I suggest taking a system of magic and learning it fully, rather than bouncing between random techniques from many different traditions. Each tradition has it’s own language, and you can’t effectively communicate if you mix up a bunch of English, Spanish and Russian words without understanding how to speak any of those languages. There are also potential dangers and downsides to magical practice, and learning a complete system of magic fully helps the practitioner develop at a consistent pace and stay in balance.

But can magic actually be of any use directly in the quest for Self-Realization? Well, that’s a good question. First of all, are there any practices that reliably lead directly to Self-Realization? Some people, for example folks in the pragmatic dharma scene, insist that all you have to do is meditate x number of hours in this particular way and you’ll assuredly get Stream-Entry, then just x more number of hours and you’ll eventually get to full Arhantship. However, from the bulk of accounts, Awakening seems to be an accident of Grace, though one that we can potentially court (assuming we can do anything in the first place). That being said, throughout time, there have been people who have walked the path of High magic as a spiritual path, this practice is often called theurgy, or magic that invokes the divine. Richard Rose talked about Between-ness as a “high form of magic” (DME). He defined it as “the ability to hold the mind on a dead standstill in order to effect certain changes” (DME) and as valuable for such diverse things as healing, gambling, finding “Will,” or breaking through to Realization. Between-ness is something like triangulating the point between “Do what thou wilt” and “Thy will be done,” but I can’t say that I’ve mastered the technique myself yet.

Back in the third century C.E., a Neo-Platonist philosopher named Iamblichus argued that theurgy was a possible path for Realization. This was in strong disagreement with fellow philosopher Porphyry, who had edited the great Plotinus’s The Enneads and was said to be Iamblichus’s teacher. But how do we know if either of them were enlightened, or what did it if they were? All we have to go on are other people’s claims, and our own reason, intuition and experience. When it comes down to it, magic may be an effective spiritual path for some people, hardcore Buddhist meditation may be an effective path for some other people, and driving a truck while asking curious questions about the meaning of being human may be an effective path for some other people. It seems like everybody’s path Home is different. And when it comes to magic as a spiritual path, what brings it into the realm of self-inquiry is asking, who is Willing? Whose consciousness is being transformed? Whose desires are they that wish to be manifested? Where did they come from? Who is the magician? Who is the doer? What are you, essentially?

 Update for the Amsterdam, NL Self-Inquiry Group:
The group is not holding meetings currently, but email for information.

 Update from the Central New Jersey Group Central New Jersey Self Inquiry:
The Central Jersey Self Inquiry Group welcomes serious participants. We are a small group and meet every other Sunday from 6pm to 7pm eastern time on zoom.
Members of the NY City Self Inquiry Group and the Central Jersey Inquiry Group worked together to hold a one-day retreat recently. The retreat was held in person at a public space in New York City with 8 people participating. The retreat started with each participant sharing his or her intention/reason for attending. In one session, quotes from teachers were read; participants wrote down and shared what arose for them in hearing each quote. In another session, the topic “what is progress for you” was the group-inquiry prompt.
~ For meeting info: facebook.com/groups/429437321740752. Questions? for more details.

 Update from the Central Ohio Non-Duality Group:
The Central Ohio Non-Duality Group has continued to meet virtually during the pandemic with a group of core members. As a result, the participants now dial in beyond Central Ohio from CA, TX, MD, NC and OH. We will continue to meet virtually on Tuesday evenings at 6:30 to 8:30 PM and welcome new participants. The meetings feature confrontation sessions that are a serious effort to engage in self-inquiry with the help of friends on the path. New participants can begin by first observing the process, if they wish, to understand the purpose and nature of such efforts by like-minded seekers. The Central Ohio Non-Duality Group recently posted the meeting link to its local Meet-Up site inviting new participants. If interest is shown for in-person meetings by participants in the Central Ohio area, in-person meetings will be re-started on a second evening. ~ For further information, contact , , or . We’re also on Facebook.

TAT Press publishes Mike’s Passages: An Introduction and Commentary on Richard Rose’s Albigen System co-authored with Shawn Nevins.

 Update from the Dublin, Ireland self-inquiry group:
We meet every second Wednesday on Zoom. We are working using two different approaches. The first is the standard confrontation approach of people giving an update on what was coming for them in the previous period, in terms of their path. The second is the distribution of a piece in advance for reflection. We will continue in this vein for the time being, using either a general update or a piece for reflection shared in advance. ~ Contact for more information.
     We also meet online using Google Meet at least every second Sunday. The format so far is participants will talk solo for about 5 to 10 minutes on their reactions to the meeting’s given topic and then respond to questions from the others present. Information is given in the “What we are about” section of the Sunday group’s Meetup main page about becoming a member, etc. The online format is good to accommodate seekers who live far apart, but the hope would be every once in a while to have in-person events. Live meetings can provide new insights that may not occur in virtual meetings and could be either via a TAT retreat or an organised event within the group.~ Contact for more information.
     Our group has started to do in-person meetings in southern Ireland. As the first meeting has gone well, the consensus is to hold them monthly or bimonthly. Currently, the venue is “The Cahir House Hotel” in Cahir, Tipperary, from 8 am to 4 or 5 pm on a chosen Saturday, and folks can hang out longer if they wish. Meetings have scheduled topics provided by the participants in advance of the meeting. There is a group rapport session during the day for an hour, which got good feedback last time. And finally, we try to stick to a theme for the day in the same style as the TAT retreats. For more information, contact Patrick or Colm.

 Update from the email self-inquiry groups:
 The Women’s Online Confrontation (WOC) group consists of weekly reports where participants can include:
     > What is on your mind?
     > Any projects that you want to be held accountable for?
     > Responses to a selected excerpt (in the previous report).
     > Comments/responses/questions for other participants.
     A philosophical/spiritual excerpt with two or three questions is included in each report. Based on what we share, participants ask questions to help get clarity about our thinking. The intention is to help each other see our underlying beliefs about who we are.
     One rule we try to adhere to is not to give advice or solve problems. The number of participants, to make it work efficiently, is between 4 and 7 including the leader.
 We continue to have two men’s email groups active. Since the beginning of the year, four participants have left and one other participant has returned. The weekly reports function like slow-motion self-inquiry confrontation meetings, which has its pros and cons. We alternate by asking each other questions one week then answering them the following week. Participants provide brief updates of highlights from the previous week and optional updates on progress toward objectives that they use the reports for accountability on.
 Both the women’s and the men’s email groups welcome serious participants. ~ Contact or for more information.

 TAT Press publishes Anima’s and Art’s book: Always Right Behind You: Parables & Poems of Love & Completion.

 Update from the Gainesville, FL self-inquiry group:
We continue to meet at the Alachua County main library on Saturdays from 2 to 4 PM. We typically schedule meetings for alternate Saturdays with an occasional extra week between meetings due to holidays or the TAT meeting schedule and our group’s associated retreats. We talk with newcomers about the objective of the group as a forum to stimulate the progress of self-inquirers and we ask them what their most heartfelt life-objective is, and then we usually listen to each volunteer who want to talk and then be questioned about what they’ve said.~ Email or for more information.

The Gainesville self-inquiry group is planning a five-night intensive retreat at the Domincan Retreat Center in Dublin, IE on Friday-Wednesday, September 15–20, 2023. The theme is “Sitting Down Near” (from the translation of the Sanskrit term Upaniṣad: upa “by” and ni-ṣad “sit down”).

 TAT Press publishes three of Art’s books: Solid Ground of Being: A Personal Story of the Impersonal, Beyond Relativity: Transcending the Split Between Knower & Known, Sense of Self: The Source of All Existential Suffering?, and a fourth book, Always Right Behind You: Parables & Poems of Love & Completion co-authored with Anima Pundeer.

Update from the GMT Support Group for Seekers:
We meet every Sunday gmt 18.30, live on Google Meet. Rapport and confrontation, talk and exchange.
Someone mostly brings a theme, like a text, poem or whatever to set the mood. Then 10 minutes of silent rapport after which everyone gets their turn on the “hot seat” for 10-15 minutes—the group listens to what the person has to say about the theme then asks friendly questions—depending on how many participants we are. The questioning is aimed at providing material for self-inquiry. There have been sessions in which we just chatted, but that is more the exception. ~ Contact .

 Update from the Greensburg, PA self-inquiry group:
My Greensburg SIG group is currently in hiatus. I would like to have meetings in person again sometime in the future. But in the meantime, if you have any inquiries, or have an interest in helping me set up local meetings to meet again in person, you can email me at .

 An update from the self-inquiry group in Houston, TX:
We have merged our Zoom meetings with the Monday Night Confrontation group, which meets at 7:30 pm EST / 6:30 pm CST. ~ Contact for more information.

 TAT Press publishes Anima’s and Art’s book: Always Right Behind You: Parables & Poems of Love & Completion.

 “Ignoramuses Anonymous” blog
Ignoramuses Anonymous is for seekers to explore questions together…a fellowship of seekers for whom ignorance of the absolute truth had become a major problem. It started as a blog for Pittsburgh PSI meeting members back in 2009. Welcoming discussion on the path.

Ig Anon looks inactive again. The idea is to have a kind of seeker’s blog to process our thinking out loud and hopefully also help seekers new to group work see what we’re thinking about and if it resonates. My feeling is shorter posts in a range of 100-300 words are easier to put together and probably to read than recent 1000-word posts; however, there are no rules about it.
WordPress.com free tier is starting to look like Times Square with all its ads. I think the blog needs to be hosted somewhere to really restart it, and will try first at Firstknowthyself.org. Once it’s moved, then it would be great to see if it can be useful again!
 See this post from a Four-day isolation retreat at TAT Center, with photos and YouTube clips.

 Update from the Lynchburg, VA self-inquiry group:
We have been meeting on Thursday evenings from 7pm—8:30pm, online, via zoom. Norio Kushi, Paul Rezendes, and Bob Harwood are consistent guests. We’ve also had some other interesting characters show up from time to time. Topics come from readings or questions brought up by our members. These are sent out, along with the zoom invitation each week. Recently we posted some “considerations” for joining our group:
** Try to frame your comments as questions to Norio, Paul, or Bob. Draw these questions from you own experience rather than generalities. Maintain attention and discussion on the question rather than philosophical musings.
** Question other participants, in the spirit of group-assisted self inquiry, but without attempting to lead them to any particular conclusion or bring attention to yourself.
**Allow for and attend to the silence and the space that is always present. When you aren’t speaking, see that as your role—to hold that space.
**Question, in yourself, the use of personal story-telling and quoting others—though sometimes both are helpful and appropriate.
**Consider the way in which you are listening. Does it have a quality of acquisitiveness or openness?
**Continue to question your own intention for coming to this meeting and let that guide any comments/questions/discussion.
~ Please contact if you’re interested in being on the email list.

Update from the Monday Night Confrontation Group:

The Monday Night Confrontation (MNC) online meeting is going strong with a core group of participants and room for a few more. Meetings are at 7:30 pm EST / 6:30 pm CST and use the Zoom video conference platform. The group practices confrontation/self-inquiry in a spirit of helpfulness with the goal of finding answers from within. If you are interested in joining or would like more information, email .

 Update from the New York City self-inquiry group:
The New York City Self-Inquiry group meets by Zoom every Monday from 6-8 PM EST. You can use this link. Our format is inspired by Art Ticknor’s self-inquiry retreats, giving equal time for each person to answer a spiritual, philosophical, or personal “question of the week.” By asking questions, we practice being sincere and reminding one another about the great mysteries of life.
Regarding the recent NYC SIG get-together with the NJ SIG, the participants also followed a guided meditation recording of Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu and were led in tai chi exercises. For some attendees, it marked the first in-person event with the local NYC group since the pandemic. There were also first-time attendees who had only met on Zoom previously. Some attendees travelled 2 hours one-way (or more). There was lunch in-between and friendly, joking conversation in the course of the day which started at 10:30 AM and ended around 5 PM.
~ More details, as well as our weekly discussion topics, are available on our MeetUp page (first link above) and via email at .

Update for the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area self-inquiry:
We meet at the Chapel Hill Public Library on alternate Saturdays from 1:00 to 2:30 PM, in meeting room D.
~ Email with any questions.

 Update from the Raleigh, NC Triangle Inquiry Group:
We’re a small group that these days meets every first and third Tuesday of the month via Zoom. We usually have four to eight participants and new members are welcome. Except for a brief hiatus, we’ve been meeting regularly since the late 1990’s. Our main focus is on looking at beliefs that can get us stuck in habitual ways of thinking which can limit the possibility of seeing the true nature of things. Although I act as a sort of MC in our meetings, there’s no teacher or group leader and we all try to help each other in the search for the Real. ~ Email for more details.

 Update from the San Francisco Bay area self-inquiry group:
See the Shawn Nevins interview by Iain McNay of Conscious.tv, kicking off the publication of Shawn’s book Subtraction: The Simple Math of Enlightenment. ~ Email for information about upcoming meetings and events.

TAT Press publishes Shawn’s Images of Essence: The Standing Now, which features his poems with photos by Bob Fergeson, The Celibate Seeker: An Exploration of Celibacy as a Modern Spiritual Practice, Subtraction: The Simple Math of Enlightenment, Hydroglyphics: Reflections on the Sacred, which features his poems with photos by Phaedra Greenwood, and Passages: An Introduction and Commentary on Richard Rose’s Albigen System co-authored with Mike Gegenheimer.

 Update from the Washington DC Area Self-Inquiry Discussion Group:
[This group was previously listed as the Rockville, MD self-inquiry group.] We’ve been meeting monthly at Rockville, MD Memorial Library. While the library is closed for public health reasons, we’re participating more in a weekly online book club. Forum readers are welcome to participate. ~ For more information, please email or see the website http://firstknowthyself.org/virtual/.

“You don’t know anything until you know Everything….”

Mister Rose is an intimate look at a West Virginia native many people called a Zen Master because of the depth of his wisdom and the spiritual system he conveyed to his students. Profound and profane, Richard Rose was not the kind of man most people picture when they think of mystics or spiritual teachers. Yet, he was the truest of teachers, one who had “been there,” one who had the cataclysmic experience of spiritual enlightenment.

Filmed in the spring of 1991, the extraordinary documentary follows Mr. Rose from a radio interview, to a university lecture and back to his farm, as he talks about his experience, his philosophy and the details of his life.

Whether you find him charming or offensive, fatherly or fearsome, you will not forget him, and never again will you think about yourself, reality, or life after death in quite the same way.

3+ hours total. Rent or buy at tatfoundation.vhx.tv/.

2012 April TAT Meeting – Remembering Your True Desire

Includes all the speakers from the April 2012 TAT meeting: Art Ticknor, Bob Fergeson, Shawn Nevins and Heather Saunders.

1) Remembering Your True Desire … and Acting on It, by Art Ticknor
Spiritual action is like diving for the Pearl beyond Price. What do you do when you don’t know what to do or how to do it? An informal discussion centered around the question: “What prevents effective spiritual action?”

2) Swimming in the Inner Ocean: Trips to the Beach, by Bob Fergeson
A discussion of the varied ways we can use in order to hear the voice of our inner ocean, the heart of our true desires.

3) A Wider and Wilder Vision, by Shawn Nevins
Notes on assumptions, beliefs, and perspectives that bind and free us.

4) Make Your Whole Life a Prayer, by Heather Saunders
An intriguing look into a feeling-oriented approach to life.

5+ hours total. Rent or buy at tatfoundation.vhx.tv/.