A Friday to Sunday gathering November 10-12, 2023 TAT Center, North Carolina, USA
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TAT members share their personal convictions and/or concerns
The Role of Magic in Spiritual Seeking
Like Richard Rose, I have found the study of magic to be instructive in my search for Identity. I have also found it to be a topic that engenders confusion, misunderstanding, and even hostility in many spiritual circles. This is in no small part due to the dismissal of this ancient family of arts and sciences by the dominant paradigms of the Industrial West, the dogma of those secular religions of Materialism and Progress subconsciously ingrained in the psyches of this culture’s inmates. Other factors for the meager opinion of magic within some spiritual circles include the overwhelm caused by the high diversity of practices that constitute “magic,” the actual danger of some less savory and more intense forms of magic, the idea that magic is solely about power and control, and the idea that the true spiritual seeker mustn’t be sullied or distracted by such lower pursuits. In this essay, I hope to share with my fellow spiritual seekers the useful bits that I’ve learned over my years studying magic, to disentangle the subject, clarify what “magic” actually is, and to outline some various practices that could be helpful to the spiritual seeker. This could actually be a whole book, so I’ll really only scratch the surface of this topic here.
Firstly, what is “magic”? Miriam-Webster defines it as “the use of means (such as charms or spells) believed to have supernatural power over natural force.” That may be the officially approved understanding of magic, but many magicians find this definition severely lacking. The great German magician, Theosophist and medical doctor Franz Hartmann preemptively retorts in Magic: White & Black: “Magical power is not a supernatural power, if by the term ‘supernatural’ you mean a power which is outside, beyond or locally above nature” and instead defines magic as “The Highest Science, or Wisdom, based upon knowledge and practical experience.” This is a typical Victorian definition of magic, somewhat adapted in the next generation of occultists to be something more like “the science and art of causing changes in consciousness in conformity with will” as per Dion Fortune (G. Suster, The Legacy of the Beast). This definition of course leaves open the question of whose “will” is causing the changes. Contemporary occultist and author John Michael Greer generally agrees with Fortune’s definition but has also defined it as “the art and science of participation in the spiritual forces of the cosmos” (“The Way of Participation: A Response to Paul Kingsnorth”). Between all of these definitions, one can get a feel for what the term “magic” points to for those who use it to describe what they do. Magic isn’t supernatural, it’s working with the subtle, but still natural, network of relationships that structure the cosmos to manifest one’s will….
These are rather general definitions however, and the word “magic” stands in for a whole variety of actual practices. This is also a more Eurocentric understanding of magic, and we might say that the Euro-descendant Industrial culture has the least sophisticated understanding of magic in the world, due to the common belief being that it isn’t a real thing. Every culture, including this culture, has practices that can be called “magic,” and they are used for many different purposes, from Southern root workers using High John the Conqueror to help draw luck in gambling, to ceremonial magicians invoking their Holy Guardian Angel, to Hindus using mantras to help bring about a marriage partner. It might be fair to say that much magic is used for things that haven’t been successfully accomplished through ordinary means, though it can also be used to grease the wheels when starting any ordinary endeavor. Thus, magic can be aimed at gaining money, attention from desired sexual partners, and harming enemies, as well as towards the cultivation of wisdom and understanding and the transformation of the operator. It can also be for forming relationship with beings that aren’t entirely physical, such as what are called angels, spirits of the land, ancestors, deities, or celestial intelligences. In most contexts, magic is used to help one live a good, complete life, and to manifest one’s desires, whether those are of sex, money, or wisdom. The classic manual of Vedic Astrology Brihat Parasara Hora Sastra says that “to fulfill the desire for tranquility, the desire for prosperity, good intelligence, rainfall, longevity, the desire to be well-nourished and complete, rituals are practiced” (tr. Freedom Cole, Science of Light).
In the West, there has often been a division of magic into “White and Black” and “High and Low.” This is a bit reductive, considering the breadth of actual magical practices in the world, but we can say that generally there is magic aimed at satisfying the lower levels of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, and those more focused on spiritual development and wisdom, which is more easily accomplished after those other needs are met. One can also differentiate between magic focused on blessing and healing, and hostile and malevolent magic. Some people lump all magic aimed at supplying things like wealth and relationships into “black” magic, but that just shows their lack of awareness outside their own economic class. When somebody isn’t able to get the things they need through normal means, of course they may turn to magic, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Wisdom may also be a higher desire than sex, but it is still a desire for the “self” in the subject-object plane to experience, and contemplating the nature of reality is a luxury for many people who have to work multiple jobs to keep a roof over their head.
Richard Rose, in The Direct-Mind Experience (DME), outlines 6 types of magic, the first dealing with sleight-of-hand, the second with “somatic or protoplasmic energy” such as the chi used by martial artists, the third being “miracles of faith” which require faith from the magician as well as the affected, whether in faith healing or witchcraft. The fourth is “mental forms” such as “hypnosis, zapping, psychokinesis and so forth.” The fifth is the magic dealing with “entities” such as those invoked by goetic magicians, and the sixth is “supramental” magic, using “spiritual quantum energy.” He also admits that “there are some other categories as well.”
There are many other categories we could get into, such as the difference between psychic ability and magical skill per se, but for now let us touch on why the spiritual seeker may want to study magic. For one, studying a system of magic, such as the Golden Dawn system for instance, is a great way to train the mind through the development of will, imagination and concentration. In many ways, classic 19th-20th century ceremonial magic traditions are very similar to yogic and tantric systems in India and Tibet, and are just as valid forms of training. Practicing ceremonies, meditation and divination every day helps develop the will, strengthen, direct, and sharpen the mind, as well as awaken more subtle senses. This sort of practice, in the course of developing the will, also helps transform negative habits into positive habits.
Another reason to practice magic is to confront unacknowledged beliefs about the self and the world. Most people born in the West are indoctrinated from an early age into a belief in material-reductionism, where the physical reality is the only reality. Experiences that contradict these deeply held, unconscious convictions help loosen the mind from being stuck in limiting beliefs about what is actually going on. Believing that “magic” is categorically false is just as ludicrous as believing everything everybody who claims to have magical powers says.
Dion Fortune, in the classic work of 20th century occult philosophy The Cosmic Doctrine, says that her teachings are “to train the mind, not to inform it.” In the same way, each esoteric system has a number of worlds or planes of manifestation, from the 14 lokas of esoteric Hinduism, to the 9 worlds of the Norse Pagans, to the 10 sephiroth of the Kabbalah … these are different languages for talking about the same sort of phenomena. In the August 2023 issue of the TAT Forum, Art Ticknor expresses a similar sort of multi-plane cosmology when he writes: “Objects in the outer world, the world of our five senses, are heavier—more ponderable—than objects in the middle world of our thoughts and other mind-movement, while the latter are closer to the inner world of our true being or essence.” Materialist doctrine only believes in one plane: the physical. If you don’t see how absurd such a belief is, your convictions haven’t been thoroughly tested. These planes, and the entities that inhabit them, are not really that mystical or frou-frou. In the plane of “thoughts and other mind-movement,” which an occultist might call the “astral plane” (the plane of thoughts, images, and emotions), thoughts are entities. Again, this is a way of talking about what is going on, but the reality is much more complicated.
Many practices that we may consider “magic” in parts of the USA or Europe, are just a matter of course throughout much of the world, such as honoring ancestors, land spirits, and other beneficial deities. These sorts of practices acknowledge the more subtle planes and are a way of keeping friendly relations with these beings who affect our lives more than we care to think. In this way, these sorts of rites, as well as purification rites like banishing rituals, cleansing baths, and limpias, help keep our psychic ecosystem healthy. There are entities out there (or in here, if you prefer) who parasitically feed on human energy. There are also many traditional ways of removing them, which we consider magical in this culture. Astral parasites are in many ways no worse than ticks, but I have also known many people to suffer for decades after the bite of a tick without the correct diagnosis and treatment. I have also known multiple people who have died from depression, drug abuse and mental instability, the victim of powerfully negative thought patterns and destructive habits.
Practicing magic can also help satisfy needs lower on Maslow’s hierarchy, or clear up problems that are distracting one from deeper spiritual practice. For instance, any well-trained Vedic astrologer should be able to tell what archetypal forces (represented by the planets) are causing problems in their client’s life, and be able to give them remedies such as mantras or rituals to clear up those problems, thus allowing their client to devote more of their bandwidth to higher spiritual pursuits. Just as somebody would go to a doctor if they are sick and don’t know what to do, Vedic astrologers are karmic doctors, working on the more subtle levels to diagnose and treat imbalances in the higher/inner planes.
The practice of divination, astrology and ritual also helps us work with the subtle flows of the universe and give us the ability to tack our sails into the prevailing winds to get where we want to go. You wouldn’t want to open a restaurant the week before the country goes into a lockdown, or buy a house at the peak of a housing bubble; and in the same way, paying attention to the subtle currents, and practicing the correct rituals, allows us to make the most of our energy and effort.
In the January 2021 edition of the TAT Forum, Anima Pundeer outlined 10 steps to getting one’s house in order, and preparing the relative mind for the absolute. In short, a magical practice can help with many of these steps, from keeping the mind sharp, to maintaining financial stability.
In most cultures, there are people who specialize in exorcism, in feng shui or vaastu, in divination or astrology, in spiritual healing, and in a variety of other “magical” trades. The spiritual seeker has no need to master any of these, but it’s good to know people who do, and there are more basic practices that one can do to keep their subtle houses in order.
There are several kinds of magical practices that I can recommend for the average person which include: 1.) some form of meditation, which keeps the mind sharp; 2.) a cleansing ritual of some sort, such as a magical bath, banishing ritual, or limpia; 3.) the construction of an ancestor altar (just some pictures of deceased relatives) and offering them food/water/incense/candles, say, every new moon; 4.) a daily form of divination practice, such as tarot cards or runes, or even just trying to intuit what will happen in the day based on feelings or dreams; 4.) some form of energy work, such as the Middle Pillar after the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram; or even tai chi. These are just a few suggestions of simple practices that have outsized effects.
However, if you want to study magic in depth, I suggest taking a system of magic and learning it fully, rather than bouncing between random techniques from many different traditions. Each tradition has it’s own language, and you can’t effectively communicate if you mix up a bunch of English, Spanish and Russian words without understanding how to speak any of those languages. There are also potential dangers and downsides to magical practice, and learning a complete system of magic fully helps the practitioner develop at a consistent pace and stay in balance.
But can magic actually be of any use directly in the quest for Self-Realization? Well, that’s a good question. First of all, are there any practices that reliably lead directly to Self-Realization? Some people, for example folks in the pragmatic dharma scene, insist that all you have to do is meditate x number of hours in this particular way and you’ll assuredly get Stream-Entry, then just x more number of hours and you’ll eventually get to full Arhantship. However, from the bulk of accounts, Awakening seems to be an accident of Grace, though one that we can potentially court (assuming we can do anything in the first place). That being said, throughout time, there have been people who have walked the path of High magic as a spiritual path, this practice is often called theurgy, or magic that invokes the divine. Richard Rose talked about Between-ness as a “high form of magic” (DME). He defined it as “the ability to hold the mind on a dead standstill in order to effect certain changes” (DME) and as valuable for such diverse things as healing, gambling, finding “Will,” or breaking through to Realization. Between-ness is something like triangulating the point between “Do what thou wilt” and “Thy will be done,” but I can’t say that I’ve mastered the technique myself yet.
Back in the third century C.E., a Neo-Platonist philosopher named Iamblichus argued that theurgy was a possible path for Realization. This was in strong disagreement with fellow philosopher Porphyry, who had edited the great Plotinus’s The Enneads and was said to be Iamblichus’s teacher. But how do we know if either of them were enlightened, or what did it if they were? All we have to go on are other people’s claims, and our own reason, intuition and experience. When it comes down to it, magic may be an effective spiritual path for some people, hardcore Buddhist meditation may be an effective path for some other people, and driving a truck while asking curious questions about the meaning of being human may be an effective path for some other people. It seems like everybody’s path Home is different. And when it comes to magic as a spiritual path, what brings it into the realm of self-inquiry is asking, who is Willing? Whose consciousness is being transformed? Whose desires are they that wish to be manifested? Where did they come from? Who is the magician? Who is the doer? What are you, essentially?
It’s all about “ladder work” – helping and being helped
Richard Rose, the founder of the TAT Foundation, spent his life searching for the Truth, finding it, and helping others to find their Way. Although not well known to the public, he touched the lives of thousands of spiritual seekers through his books and lectures and through personal contacts with local study groups that continue to work with his teachings today. He felt strongly that helping others generates help for ourselves as well in our climb up the ladder to the golden find beyond the mind.
Call To Action For TAT Forum Reader
With the intention of increasing awareness of TAT’s meetings, books, and the Forum among younger serious seekers, and to increase awareness of ways to approach the search for self-definition, the TAT Foundation is now on Instagram.
You can help! A volunteer is producing shareable text-quote and video content of Richard Rose and TAT-adjacent teachers. We need your suggestions for short, provocative 1-3 sentence quotes or 1 minute or less video clips of people like Rose, Art Ticknor, Bob Fergeson, Tess Hughes, Bob Cergol, Bart Marshall, Shawn Nevins, Anima Pundeer, Norio Kushi, Paul Rezendes, Paul Constant, & other favorites. (An example here is selected by the TAT member who volunteers to oversee the Instagram account.)
Please send favorite inspiring/irritating quotes—from books you have by those authors, from the TAT Forum, or any other place—to TAT quotes. If you have favorite parts of longer videos (ex: from a talk at a past TAT meeting), please email a link to the video and a timestamp.
Thank you!
TAT Foundation Press’s latest publications
Shades of Real: Poems in a World of Wonder
Shades of Real by Kevin Shuey is now available in print and Kindle versions on Amazon.com. Discover a captivating compilation of poems that gracefully ride the waves of each fleeting moment, inviting readers into moments of tranquil excitement and resounding quietude.
Within these pages lie enigmatic verses that lead us to the very heart of our true selves, unraveling the profound mysteries that define us.
Please add your review to the Amazon listing. It makes a difference!
*
Pouring Concrete: A Zen Path to the Kingdom of God – Expanded Edition
Pouring Concrete by Bob Harwood is now available in print and Kindle versions on Amazon.com. Individuals who approach this book with receptivity and a readiness to scrutinize their culturally ingrained notions and convictions regarding the fundamental fabric of existence are likely to experience a multitude of profound insights. By embracing the diverse recommendations within these pages, one may unlock a series of existential revelations that have the potential to reshape their perspective on reality.
Please add your review to the Amazon listing. It makes a difference!
The Mister Rose video: "There's a system that searches for the Truth, and it's a process of challenging everything."
Richard Rose speaks directly to the hearts and minds of his listeners. This special video serves
as an excellent introduction to his thoughts on the spiritual path. Read more
and watch a video trailer.
February Virtual Gathering: Saturday, February 4, 2023 April Gathering: Friday evening through Sunday noon, April 14-16, 2023 May TAT Talks online event: May 13, 2023 at 12 PM ET June Gathering: Friday evening through Sunday noon, June 9-11, 2023 July TAT Talks online event: July 15, 2023 at 12 PM ET August Gathering: Friday evening through Sunday noon, August 18-20, 2023 September Virtual Gathering: Saturday, September 30, 2023 October TAT Talks online event: October 28, 2023 at 12 PM ET **Knowing by Identity: Friday evening through Sunday noon, November 10-12, 2023 **
Have you seen the TAT Foundation’s YouTube channel? Subscribe now for spiritual inspiration (and irritation)!
Volunteers have been updating the channel with hours of new content! They’ve also curated some great playlists of talks by Richard Rose, teacher talks from recent & not so recent TAT meetings, episodes of the Journals of Spiritual Discovery podcast, and other great TAT related videos from around the internet.
Featuring: Richard Rose, Bob Cergol, Shawn Nevins, Bob Fergeson, Mike Conners, Anima Pundeer, Norio Kushi, Paul Rezendes, Bob Harwood, Tess Hughes, Art Ticknor, Shawn Pethel, Tyler Matthew and other speakers.
This month’s video is Tess Hughes’s talk “Contacting the Inner Child” from the August 2020 TAT Virtual Spiritual Retreat.:
Local Group News
(Groups with recently updated information are listed first. Click the “read more” link to see a complete listing of local groups. )
Update for the Online Self-Inquiry Book Club:
> The next book is The Most Direct Means to Eternal Bliss by Michael Langford. The plan is to read 2 chapters at a time meeting first and third Sundays rom 2:00 PM ET–3:30 PM ET:
– Chapter 3 – The Imposter’s Tools and 4 – The Desire for Liberation for November 5th.
– Chapter 5 – How to Awaken the Extremely Intense Desire for Liberation and 6 – The Awareness Watching Awareness Discovery for November 19th.
For more information on book club participation, see the meeting website (link above). TAT Forum readers are welcome to drop in any time (invitation to Sunday meetings).
Update from the Pittsburgh, PA self-inquiry group:
> In-person meetings 1st Mondays 2-4 pm Squirrel Hill Public Library meeting room. Monthly Monday evening meetings at Panera, Blvd of Allies in Oakland, near the college campuses.
> Online group confrontation and individual contributions every Wed, 8:00 pm ET via Zoom.
> See the e-mail link below for invitations to all meetings and to receive internal email announcements.
– Wed, Nov 1: Topic: “Day of the Dead, when the veil between the worlds is thin.”
– Sun, Nov 5: Online Book Club.
– Mon, Nov 6: 2-4 PM In-person monthly Pittsburgh meeting.
– Wed, Nov 8: Topic TBD.
– Wed, Nov 15: Lenny S. will host.
– Sun, Nov 19: Online Book Club.
– Mon, Nov 20: In-person Oakland Meeting: email for details.
– Wed, Nov 22: Guest Speaker TBD.
– Sun, Nov 26: Combined confrontation meeting with the Irish group 2-4 PM ET.
– Wed, Nov 29: Topic TBD.
> All Forum subscribers are welcome to join us.
Email to receive weekly topics with preparatory notes and Zoom invitations. Current events are listed on Meetup as Pittsburgh Self-inquiry Group and on www.pghsig.org.
Update for the Amsterdam, NL Self-Inquiry Group: The group is not holding meetings currently, but email Jeroen: jvrook at xs4all dot nl
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Update from the Central New Jersey GroupCentral New Jersey Self Inquiry:
The Central Jersey Self Inquiry Group welcomes serious participants. We are a small group and meet every other Sunday from 6pm to 7pm eastern time on zoom.
Members of the NY City Self Inquiry Group and the Central Jersey Inquiry Group worked together to hold a one-day retreat recently. The retreat was held in person at a public space in New York City with 8 people participating. The retreat started with each participant sharing his or her intention/reason for attending. In one session, quotes from teachers were read; participants wrote down and shared what arose for them in hearing each quote. In another session, the topic “what is progress for you” was the group-inquiry prompt.
~ For meeting info: facebook.com/groups/429437321740752.
Questions? Email eclark1821 at yahoo dot com
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for more details.
Update from the Central Ohio Non-Duality Group: The Central Ohio Non-Duality Group has continued to meet virtually during the pandemic with a group of core members. As a result, the participants now dial in beyond Central Ohio from CA, TX, MD, NC and OH. We will continue to meet virtually on Tuesday evenings at 6:30 to 8:30 PM and welcome new participants. The meetings feature confrontation sessions that are a serious effort to engage in self-inquiry with the help of friends on the path. New participants can begin by first observing the process, if they wish, to understand the purpose and nature of such efforts by like-minded seekers. The Central Ohio Non-Duality Group recently posted the meeting link to its local Meet-Up site inviting new participants. If interest is shown for in-person meetings by participants in the Central Ohio area, in-person meetings will be re-started on a second evening. ~ For further information, contact Todd: twhitti at hotmail dot com, Mike: cgegenhe at columbus dot rr dot com or Mark: mcole91865 at gmail dot com
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//-->. We’re also on Facebook.
Update from the Dublin, Ireland self-inquiry group:
We meet every second Wednesday on Zoom. We are working using two different approaches. The first is the standard confrontation approach of people giving an update on what was coming for them in the previous period, in terms of their path. The second is the distribution of a piece in advance for reflection. We will continue in this vein for the time being, using either a general update or a piece for reflection shared in advance.
See Colm's update in this month's Convictions & Concerns section.-->
~ Contact Colm: heaneyc1 at hotmail dot com
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//--> for more information. We also meet online using Google Meet at least every second Sunday. The format so far is participants will talk solo for about 5 to 10 minutes on their reactions to the meeting’s given topic and then respond to questions from the others present. Information is given in the “What we are about” section of the Sunday group’s Meetup main page about becoming a member, etc. The online format is good to accommodate seekers who live far apart, but the hope would be every once in a while to have in-person events. Live meetings can provide new insights that may not occur in virtual meetings and could be either via a TAT retreat or an organised event within the group.~ Contact Colm: heaneyc1 at hotmail dot com
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//--> for more information. Our group has started to do in-person meetings in southern Ireland. As the first meeting has gone well, the consensus is to hold them monthly or bimonthly. Currently, the venue is “The Cahir House Hotel” in Cahir, Tipperary, from 8 am to 4 or 5 pm on a chosen Saturday, and folks can hang out longer if they wish. Meetings have scheduled topics provided by the participants in advance of the meeting. There is a group rapport session during the day for an hour, which got good feedback last time. And finally, we try to stick to a theme for the day in the same style as the TAT retreats. For more information, contact Patrick or Colm.
Update from the email self-inquiry groups: The Women’s Online Confrontation (WOC) group consists of weekly reports where participants can include: > What is on your mind? > Any projects that you want to be held accountable for? > Responses to a selected excerpt (in the previous report). > Comments/responses/questions for other participants. A philosophical/spiritual excerpt with two or three questions is included in each report. Based on what we share, participants ask questions to help get clarity about our thinking. The intention is to help each other see our underlying beliefs about who we are. One rule we try to adhere to is not to give advice or solve problems. The number of participants, to make it work efficiently, is between 4 and 7 including the leader. We continue to have two men’s email groups active. Since the beginning of the year, four participants have left and one other participant has returned. The weekly reports function like slow-motion self-inquiry confrontation meetings, which has its pros and cons. We alternate by asking each other questions one week then answering them the following week. Participants provide brief updates of highlights from the previous week and optional updates on progress toward objectives that they use the reports for accountability on. Both the women’s and the men’s email groups welcome serious participants. ~ Contact Anima: apundeer at gmail dot com or Art: selfinq at gmail dot com
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Update from the Gainesville, FL self-inquiry group: We continue to meet at the Alachua County main library on Saturdays from 2 to 4 PM. We typically schedule meetings for alternate Saturdays with an occasional extra week between meetings due to holidays or the TAT meeting schedule and our group’s associated retreats.
We talk with newcomers about the objective of the group as a forum to stimulate the progress of self-inquirers and we ask them what their most heartfelt life-objective is, and then we usually listen to each volunteer who want to talk and then be questioned about what they’ve said.~ Email Nathan: nathan dot lippi at gmail dot com or Art: selfinq at gmail dot com
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The Gainesville self-inquiry group is planning a five-night intensive retreat at the Domincan Retreat Center in Dublin, IE on Friday-Wednesday, September 15–20, 2023. The theme is “Sitting Down Near” (from the translation of the Sanskrit term Upaniṣad: upa “by” and ni-ṣad “sit down”).
Update from the GMT Support Group for Seekers:
We meet every Sunday gmt 18.30, live on Google Meet. Rapport and confrontation, talk and exchange.
Someone mostly brings a theme, like a text, poem or whatever to set the mood. Then 10 minutes of silent rapport after which everyone gets their turn on the “hot seat” for 10-15 minutes—the group listens to what the person has to say about the theme then asks friendly questions—depending on how many participants we are. The questioning is aimed at providing material for self-inquiry. There have been sessions in which we just chatted, but that is more the exception. ~ Contact
Jim (jim at lordjim dot co dot uk)
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Update from the Greensburg, PA self-inquiry group: My Greensburg SIG group is currently in hiatus. I would like to have meetings in person again sometime in the future. But in the meantime, if you have any inquiries, or have an interest in helping me set up local meetings to meet again in person, you can email me at Vince: lep33 at verizon dot net
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An update from the self-inquiry group in Houston, TX: We have merged our Zoom meetings with the Monday Night Confrontation group, which meets at 7:30 pm EST / 6:30 pm CST. ~ Contact Anima: apundeer at gmail dot com
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“Ignoramuses Anonymous” blog Ignoramuses Anonymous is for seekers to explore questions together…a fellowship of seekers for whom ignorance of the absolute truth had become a major problem. It started as a blog for Pittsburgh PSI meeting members back in 2009. Welcoming discussion on the path.
Ig Anon looks inactive again. The idea is to have a kind of seeker’s blog to process our thinking out loud and hopefully also help seekers new to group work see what we’re thinking about and if it resonates. My feeling is shorter posts in a range of 100-300 words are easier to put together and probably to read than recent 1000-word posts; however, there are no rules about it. WordPress.com free tier is starting to look like Times Square with all its ads. I think the blog needs to be hosted somewhere to really restart it, and will try first at Firstknowthyself.org. Once it’s moved, then it would be great to see if it can be useful again! See this post from a Four-day isolation retreat at TAT Center, with photos and YouTube clips.
Update from the Lynchburg, VA self-inquiry group: We have been meeting on Thursday evenings from 7pm—8:30pm, online, via zoom. Norio Kushi, Paul Rezendes, and Bob Harwood are consistent guests. We’ve also had some other interesting characters show up from time to time. Topics come from readings or questions brought up by our members. These are sent out, along with the zoom invitation each week. Recently we posted some “considerations” for joining our group: ** Try to frame your comments as questions to Norio, Paul, or Bob. Draw these questions from you own experience rather than generalities. Maintain attention and discussion on the question rather than philosophical musings. ** Question other participants, in the spirit of group-assisted self inquiry, but without attempting to lead them to any particular conclusion or bring attention to yourself. **Allow for and attend to the silence and the space that is always present. When you aren’t speaking, see that as your role—to hold that space. **Question, in yourself, the use of personal story-telling and quoting others—though sometimes both are helpful and appropriate. **Consider the way in which you are listening. Does it have a quality of acquisitiveness or openness? **Continue to question your own intention for coming to this meeting and let that guide any comments/questions/discussion. ~ Please contact Jim: sonofstone48 at comcast dot net
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Update from the Monday Night Confrontation Group:
The Monday Night Confrontation (MNC) online meeting is going strong with a core group of participants and room for a few more. Meetings are at 7:30 pm EST / 6:30 pm CST and use the Zoom video conference platform. The group practices confrontation/self-inquiry in a spirit of helpfulness with the goal of finding answers from within. If you are interested in joining or would like more information, email Tara (jzzldy8 at sbcglobal dot net).
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Update from the New York City self-inquiry group: The New York City Self-Inquiry group meets by Zoom every Monday from 6-8 PM EST.
You can use this link.
Our format is inspired by Art Ticknor’s self-inquiry retreats, giving equal time for each person to answer a spiritual, philosophical, or personal “question of the week.” By asking questions, we practice being sincere and reminding one another about the great mysteries of life.
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Regarding the recent NYC SIG get-together with the NJ SIG, the participants also followed a guided meditation recording of Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu and were led in tai chi exercises. For some attendees, it marked the first in-person event with the local NYC group since the pandemic. There were also first-time attendees who had only met on Zoom previously. Some attendees travelled 2 hours one-way (or more). There was lunch in-between and friendly, joking conversation in the course of the day which started at 10:30 AM and ended around 5 PM.
~ More details, as well as our weekly discussion topics, are available on our MeetUp page (first link above) and via email at nycselfinquiry at gmail dot com
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Update for the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area self-inquiry:
We meet at the Chapel Hill Public Library on alternate Saturdays from 1:00 to 2:30 PM, in meeting room D.
~ Email Mark: markwintgens68 at gmail dot com
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Update from the Raleigh, NC Triangle Inquiry Group:
We’re a small group that these days meets every first and third Tuesday of the month via Zoom. We usually have four to eight participants and new members are welcome. Except for a brief hiatus, we’ve been meeting regularly since the late 1990’s. Our main focus is on looking at beliefs that can get us stuck in habitual ways of thinking which can limit the possibility of seeing the true nature of things. Although I act as a sort of MC in our meetings, there’s no teacher or group leader and we all try to help each other in the search for the Real. ~ Email Doug: em>doug.franklin.white at gmail dot com
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Update from the San Francisco Bay area self-inquiry group: See the Shawn Nevins interview by Iain McNay of Conscious.tv, kicking off the publication of Shawn’s book Subtraction: The Simple Math of Enlightenment. ~ Email Shawn: sanevins2 at yahoo dot com
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Update from the Washington DC Area Self-Inquiry Discussion Group: [This group was previously listed as the Rockville, MD self-inquiry group.] We’ve been meeting monthly at Rockville, MD Memorial Library. While the library is closed for public health reasons, we’re participating more in a weekly online book club. Forum readers are welcome to participate. ~ For more information, please email Dan: dgarmat at gmail dot com
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Members-Only Area
A password-protected section of the website is available for TAT members. (Note that there’s an occasional glitch that, when you try to link to the members-only area or a sections within it, you’ll get a page-not-found error. If you try the link a second time, it should work.) Contents include:
How you can help TAT and fellow seekers,
Audio recordings of selected sessions from 2008–2019 in-person meetings and from February and November 2021 Zoom meetings,
Resources and ideas for those planning a group spiritual retreats,
Photographs of TAT meeting facilities, the Richard Rose grave site, a rare 1979 photo, and aerial photos of the Rose farm,
Presenters’ talk notes from April TAT meetings in 2005–2007, and
TAT News Letters from 1996–2013 and Annual Retrospectives from 1973 thru 2011. The Retrospectives from 1973–1985 were written by Richard Rose and are replete with ideas on the workings of a spiritual group—rich historical content.
TAT policies, TAT business meeting notes, and other information.
Latest recordings:
TAT’s November 2021 online gathering, titled What Do You Really, Really Want From Life?: 3.5 hours of selected sessions.
In Thought, Word and Deed : 2.5 hours of selected sessions.
TAT’s August 2019 Workshop was titled Beyond Mindfulness: Meditation and the Path Within and included three guest speakers who each led separate workshops. The following audio recordings are now available in the members-only website area:
“Mindfulness. Is it just another spiritual buzzword?” with Bob Cergol,
“The Path of Direct Sensory Perception” with Bob Harwood, and
“The Art of Mindfulness is the Passion for Truth” with Paul Rezendes.
TAT’s June 2019 Spiritual Retreat Weekend was titled Between You and the Infinite. The following audio recordings are now available in the members-only website area:
“Coming Home (aka The End of Seeking)” by Don Oakley, and
“What’s in the Way?” by Eshwar Segobind.
TAT’s April 2019 Spiritual Retreat Weekend was titled Once in a Lifetime is Now. The following audio recordings are now available in the members-only website area:
“Recognizing the Human Dilemma” by Norio Kushi,
“Strategies for Self-Realization” by Bart Marshall,
Untitled session by Paul Hedderman, and
“A Session in the Now” by Paul Rezendes.
Please us if you have questions. (Look here for info on TAT membership.)
As an Amazon Associate, TAT earns from qualifying purchases made through the above link or other links on our website.
TAT has registered with the eBay Giving Works program. You can list an item there and select TAT to receive a portion of your sale. Or if you use the link and donate 100% of the proceeds to TAT, you won’t pay any seller fees when an item sells and eBay will transfer all the funds to TAT for you. Check out our Giving Works page on eBay. Click on the “For sellers” link on the left side of that page for details.
Downloadable/rental versions of the Mister Rose video and of April TAT talks Remembering Your True Desire:
“You don’t know anything until you know Everything….”
Mister Rose is an intimate look at a West Virginia native many people called a Zen Master because of the depth of his wisdom and the spiritual system he conveyed to his students. Profound and profane, Richard Rose was not the kind of man most people picture when they think of mystics or spiritual teachers. Yet, he was the truest of teachers, one who had “been there,” one who had the cataclysmic experience of spiritual enlightenment.
Filmed in the spring of 1991, the extraordinary documentary follows Mr. Rose from a radio interview, to a university lecture and back to his farm, as he talks about his experience, his philosophy and the details of his life.
Whether you find him charming or offensive, fatherly or fearsome, you will not forget him, and never again will you think about yourself, reality, or life after death in quite the same way.
2012 April TAT Meeting – Remembering Your True Desire
Includes all the speakers from the April 2012 TAT meeting: Art Ticknor, Bob Fergeson, Shawn Nevins and Heather Saunders.
1) Remembering Your True Desire … and Acting on It, by Art Ticknor Spiritual action is like diving for the Pearl beyond Price. What do you do when you don’t know what to do or how to do it? An informal discussion centered around the question: “What prevents effective spiritual action?”
2) Swimming in the Inner Ocean: Trips to the Beach, by Bob Fergeson A discussion of the varied ways we can use in order to hear the voice of our inner ocean, the heart of our true desires.
3) A Wider and Wilder Vision, by Shawn Nevins Notes on assumptions, beliefs, and perspectives that bind and free us.
4) Make Your Whole Life a Prayer, by Heather Saunders An intriguing look into a feeling-oriented approach to life.
TAT founder Richard Rose believed that working with others accelerates our retreat from untruth. He also felt that such efforts were most effective when applied with discernment, meaning working with others on the rungs of the ladder closest to our own. The TAT News section is for TAT members to communicate about work they’ve been doing with or for other members and friends. Please your “ladder work” news.
Humor {(h)yo͞omər}
“One thing you must be able to do in the midst of any experience is laugh. And experience should show you that it isn’t real, that it’s a movie. Life doesn’t take you seriously, so why take it seriously.” ~ Richard Rose, Carillon
Robot Incident
One day a father brought a lie-detector robot home.
He asked his son what he was doing today in his friend’s home? The son said he was studying at his friends house. The robot slapped him.
He said, “OK, I was playing a video game there with my friend.”
”The father said, “When I was his age, I used to study a lot. I wasn’t like him.”
The robot slapped him too!!
His mother laughed and said, “He is your son, after all.”
Why did the chicken go to a séance? To get to the other side.
*
~ Thanks to TAT friend Steve. Photo by Pavel Danilyuk on pexels.com.
Inspiration & Irritation
Irritation moves us; inspiration provides a direction
What is the shortcut to spiritual awakening?
ChatGPT: There is no one-size-fits-all shortcut to spiritual awakening, as the path to awakening is unique to each individual. However, there are some general practices that can help facilitate spiritual awakening. Here are a few suggestions:
Meditation: Meditation is a powerful tool for self-awareness and can help you connect with your inner self. Regular meditation can help you to quiet your mind, increase your self-awareness, and cultivate a sense of inner peace.
Self-inquiry: Self-inquiry is the process of questioning your thoughts and beliefs to uncover deeper truths about yourself and the world around you. This practice can help you gain a deeper understanding of yourself and the nature of reality.
Mindfulness: Mindfulness is the practice of being present in the moment and fully engaged in the experience of life. By cultivating mindfulness, you can develop a greater sense of awareness and a deeper connection to your inner self.
Service: Serving others can be a powerful way to connect with your higher self and cultivate a sense of purpose and meaning in your life. By helping others, you can tap into your innate sense of compassion and connect with the interconnectedness of all things.
Surrender: Surrendering to the present moment and trusting in the universe can help you to release attachment to outcomes and cultivate a sense of peace and commitment. This practice involves letting go of the need to control and accepting what is in the present moment.
Remember, the path to spiritual awakening is a journey, not a destination. It requires patience, perseverance, and a willingness to explore and learn.
~ Thanks to B.H., who submitted the question to ChatGPT. Image by Alexandra_Koch from Pixabay.
~ Thanks to Mike L., who wrote that he was sending this clip from a movie he recently rewatched called “The Legend of Bagger Vance.” The movie is about a war veteran (Matt Damon’s character) who returns home from World War I to his hometown, a broken man. Prior to the war he was a famous local golfer. His character gets dragged into an exhibition match with two professional golfers and ends up meeting Will Smith’s character who caddies for him in the exhibition match. This scene starts at the beginning of the second round of golf when he’s 12 strokes back and has no hope of getting back in contention. I did a bit of internet sleuthing and apparently this is a retelling of the Bhagavad Gita. Matt Damon’s character’s name is Randolph Junah (R. Junah = Arjuna) and Will Smith’s character is Bagger Vance (Bhagavan = Lord Krishna).
Dealing With Feeling
It is staggering to realize how much anguish, resistance and thought activity can be produced simply from not wanting to deal with a certain feeling. The mind seems to believe that it has the capability to figure out how not to feel certain feelings, emotions or states by trying to eliminate or add elements to an equation it created itself.
This is a recognition that came out of a particular kind of mood, or feeling, I observed. The understanding was that it was not so much a predicament or a situation I tried avoiding; it was the sensations and feelings themselves. Allowed to pass without interference from mind, the feelings pass without contextual and conceptual thinking.
For a moment it can feel as if you’re naked – even irresponsible – when there are seemingly issues arising that call for attention. So often, however, it is just a matter of a fleeting appearance in consciousness that will not have that much of a bearing on psyche if left as is.
It would probably be of great benefit to me to actually take a pause and examine what’s going down internally, whenever the mind is concocting its stories and projections. I’ve seen Art bringing in a quote [from Korean Zen master Seung Sahn]: “Just don’t know”. I find it relevant in so many areas of life. It’s a simple one too, which mind doesn’t like.
~ Thanks to Andreas H. Photo by Andrew Neel on pexels.com.
Dale Carnegie’s Quotes You Should Know Before You Get Old
“Develop success from failure. Discouragement and failure are two of the surest stepping stones to success.”
“Two men looked out from prison bars. One saw mud, the other saw stars.”
“Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all.”
Please your thoughts on the above items.
Reader Commentary
Encouraging interactive readership among TAT members and friends
A reader wrote that what would make the Forum more interesting would be:
Hearing from people who are searching—and have questions instead of those providing endless advice and “answers.” What challenges they are facing. What their doubts and questions are. How they perceive their path is going. What they are doing in their lives. Where they think they will end up, etc., etc.
Can you help make the Forum more interesting?
The Reader Commentary question for the October TAT Forum:
Do you consider thinking and feeling to be complementary tools or opposing activities in knowing yourself?
Responses follow.
From Tess Hughes:
(What follows is an AI generated response to the Forum question! I think it’s as good as anything I come up with and it saved me the effort of writing it. I had written a few sentences, it took the idea and expanded on it. Astonishing!)
The distinction between thinking and feeling is often seen as a dichotomy in psychology and personality theories:
– Thinking refers to the cognitive processes involved in rational analysis, logical reasoning, and problem-solving.
– Feeling, on the other hand, refers to the emotional and subjective experiences that arise from our interactions with the world.
– Viewing oneself as a complete organism means recognizing that all aspects of our experience, including thoughts, feelings, behaviors, and reactions, are interconnected and happening within us.
– This perspective suggests that everything we perceive is worthy of observation and analysis, as it can potentially lead to a deeper understanding of ourselves.
– Breaking free from the constant cycle of thought-emotion-action requires becoming aware of the automatic and self-perpetuating nature of this cycle.
– Developing the ability to observe this automatic program within ourselves is a significant milestone in self-inquiry and personal growth.
– However, achieving this level of self-awareness and breaking free from automatic patterns requires practice and ongoing observation.
– One observation is just the beginning of the journey towards greater self-understanding and personal transformation.
From Patrick K:
I am going to pull a quote from Marcus Aurelius, “The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way”. I remember a guy in one of the zoom inquiry groups say something like that, and it rings true to me. The thoughts that keep appearing have a certain pattern and the same with feelings; I can’t bypass it, I need to go through it. Another quote which has weight for me is Ramana Maharshi’s, “Plunge the purified mind into the heart. Then the work is over”. So that suggests to me a purification process. How does one purify the mind? Firstly, to me that suggests that the work to be done is backing away from distractions, all the noise that can fill, charm, seduce, hypnotise, and worry the mind. Secondly, it suggests to me to witness the negative and positive beliefs that reside there from my conditioning, to get behind all that. Thirdly, it suggests to me that for real purification I need to be able to “define” the nature of my longings, I need to know what I really, really want: purification of direction. So in summation I tend to agree with Ramana, purification is the way. Ramana’s quote begs the question, “what is heart”? Is it humility? But don’t you have to have a raving ego to eventually know humility, like the opposite of two poles? What is heart, is it love? Ramana’s quote suggests maybe heart is inherent, love is inherent, I don’t know. He suggests that when the mind is purified, love/heart will be realised or can be realised if you plunge the purified mind into it, so that’s incentive enough.
From Sergio F:
Complementary. I could only think about them as ‘opposing’ if a selfish thought causes somebody to ignore a non-selfish feeling, or if a feeling arising from selfish or erroneous beliefs causes somebody to ignore common sense or relatively objective thoughts.
I believe that examining conflicts between thoughts and feelings is a great way to learn about oneself.
From Anonymous:
(FYI: In this instance happens to include sharing quotes attributed to Jesus/Bible, though am not specifically oriented to Christianity in a religious sense.)
When meditating once long ago there came an insight regarding “thought” that served meaningfully for me/this character … not sure if this would be useful or resonate for anyone else…
The insight was that when “Jesus” said: “Can ye not tell the difference between the living and the dead,” he was talking to us about our own “thoughts” (not other people).
The recognition at that time was that most/many human thoughts can be seen as analogous to ceramic seeds (as opposed to real, living seeds). They are “dead,” and Life/Truth would not spring forth from them. In that sense most thinking does not really serve as a means to see, know, connect to Life/Knowing OneSelf. However, watching and paying attention to feelings (“feeling” here not necessarily directly equivalent to “emotions”) can serve to distinguish the “wheat from the chaff” as it relates to thoughts. In that sense, while thoughts are still playing a big part in a person’s experience, thoughts guided by feelings (to discern between “living” versus “dead” thoughts), might be used as complementary tools in pointing in the direction of Self-Knowing.
From Doug D:
I consider thinking and feeling to be complementary tools in knowing yourself. My reasoning is that thoughts and feelings are both part of the experience of selfing, so neither should be ignored.
From Mark W:
I tend to think of thinking and feeling as complementary. I suppose I could think of them as contradictory in that I can’t seem to do both simultaneously. Nevertheless, it seems I need both to survive in this relative, mundane world as well as to see through my faulty beliefs as part of my subtractive path. This complementary viewpoint was confirmed for me when I realized I had spent 60-some years of my life mired in the quicksand approach of over-relying on logic and critical thinking in my spiritual search. Though neither complete nor perfect, the complementary approach seemingly has led to noticeable change.
From Art Ticknor:
I see two spots where the question of feeling vs. thinking come into play. One is when we ask ourselves, in self-inquiry, what we believe ourselves to be. The more sophisticated beliefs / conclusions / convictions, etc., based on what we’ve seen, read, or heard, that we’ve adopted from authorities, are less important in terms of what may be impeding our realization than the gut-level feeling-beliefs that are not always obvious to us but which are used by the mind’s machinery in producing actions/reactions.
The other is getting in touch with what may be our biggest pull toward Truth / Self-Realization: the feeling of nostalgia. To me nostalgia is the vibrational song of the élan vital animating this physical-mental manifestation, whose lyrics are “ye who are weary come home.”
From Dan G:
The problem I hope to solve by knowing myself is that I have no good answer to the apparent judgment of “life sucks, then you die.” Neither thinking nor feeling seem sufficient to become free of a body-mind in an insane asylum on death row. But, if escape is possible, more of both in service of trying to escape must be necessary.
Both thinking and feeling can be vehicles of “Light” as I dig out of my isolated cell. The more of my mental “prison life” I sacrifice for digging, the better the chances. I shouldn’t limit my tools to what I’ve been using. How do I find a part of me that’s not just more of this horrifyingly limited mind?
Thinking and feeling might both be tools from the nut house of doomed prisoners. Perception of the “Light” to dig towards hopefully comes from something realer in me. Maybe it’s when both types of seeking are going in the same direction—towards my deepest, truest, realest intuition—that the most progress can be made.
From Jerry S:
The question did not reference a third medium, that of visceral. Is my “gut-feel” when I awake in the middle of the night simply indigestion, an inconvenient and hopefully avoidable state that is to be ignored? Or is the experience a thing in itself, could it be some other part of me “speaking to me” in the night, as something authentic and to be listened to and felt, to be examined, that needs to unfold in consciousness. Not interrupted with the most applicable train of thought pulled out of my bag of past experience and memories, to be interpreted by some other part of the body. Can feelings likewise be isolated events, natural occurrences without interpretation but recognized for it’s own meaning? And can thinking ever be free of previous patterns, to solve problems looking forward without reference to past experiences or memories? What is the possibility to isolate and watch each of the three “media” as each a thing in itself, unfiltered or interpreted by the other two?
Tricky that the mind operates best through comparisons and contrasts, so how can it do justice to feelings or visceral effects?
From Michael R:
If I had to pick one thing that seems primary to knowing yourself, it would be attention. Thinking and feeling can both direct attention, and in that way they are complementary to knowing oneself. Thinking, in particular reason and rational thinking, can help provide checks and balances for feeling. Thinking can also be a catalyst for breaking down more deeply felt beliefs and false identifications. Feeling is often a more subtle and refined path to follow inward, but it is not without error and is not the end of the path itself. Just like thinking, feeling directs attention and this can be used to look inward. Much of our thinking and feeling directs attention outward, but with the idea of milk from thorns in mind these tools can all be used to direct attention inward. Feeling is a broad term, which some might associate with emotions. While emotions can tell you a lot about your personality, your ego and its reactions, these are grosser feelings that are typically self-referential. In my experience intuition is a subtler feeling, a kind of quiet-knowing, that likely has a better chance of directing the attention towards a deeper Self Knowledge.
Next Month
The Reader Commentary question for the December TAT Forum:
Do you agree with ChatGPT’s response to the question “What is the shortcut to spiritual awakening?” Why or why not? Is there anything it missed or a part it gets wrong?
Please your responses by the 25th of November, and indicate your preferred identification (the default is your first name and the initial letter of your last name). “Anonymous” and pen names are fine, too.
PS: What question(s) would you like to ask other TAT Forum readers?
Q: What are your thoughts on this month’s reader commentary? Please
your feedback.
Richard Rose described a spiritual path as living one’s life aimed at finding the meaning of that life. Did you find anything relevant to your life or search in this month’s TAT Forum?
Rishikesh, on the Ganges River. Photo by Anima Pundeer.
We like hearing from you! Please email your comments, suggestions, inquiries, and submissions.
Sign up for notices of TAT’s four annual events and free monthly Forums by email on our contact page.
Founder’s Wisdom
Richard Rose (1917-2005) established the TAT Foundation in 1973 to encourage people to work together on what he considered to be the “grand project” of spiritual work.
Notes from a 1982 Winter Intensive, part 2
> Jan 10: Until this point, the entire morning was set aside for silent contemplation. The new schedule: morning meditation now from 6 to 9, with confrontation (self-inquiry questioning) from 9 to noon.
> Jan 11:
Have to have a dream then work determinedly to create it
The teacher must find his students; the students don’t know what to look for
> Jan 12:
If you were going into the egg business, e.g., you’d need a plan for starting out (purchasing, producing, selling) and detailed ways & means of implementing steps to build a lucrative operation
Need a similar type of plan for spiritual work
> Jan 14:
The success formula is very simple: Total commitment + direct all energies to ways & means (answers will come via intuition)
Zen: no dogma—just learn how to think
Approach to philosophy requires nonlinear thinking
Triangulation; conciliation of opposites
Intuition tempered by common sense
Creation formula: imagination + will + fiat, then forget
Surrender to that which is superior to us
Desire only that which is supposed to happen
Go into people’s minds through what’s on their minds
… A spot on earth where people can do retreats and hold meetings; where the emphasis is on friendship and the search.
November 2023:
As we head towards the close of the year, October donations brought us to 14.2% of our 2023 fundraising goal of $15,750. Please keep TAT in mind if you plan on any end-of-year donations, and also remember that your Amazon purchases (like Christmas gifts!) can generate income for TAT if you use the generic link or any of the Amazon links on the TAT website.
Thanks to all of you for making TAT the extraordinary organization it is.
Sincerely, Shawn Nevins
PS: Monthly contributions are a great way to support the TAT Center if making a larger one-time donation seems too much. If you’re so inspired, click the Donate button below, then check the box for “Make this a monthly donation” as in the example below:
Let’s bring this to life! “The job is upon us,” Richard Rose said, “and it is worthwhile.” To contribute to the TAT Center, mail a check made out to the TAT Foundation to:
TAT Foundation PO Box 3402 Roxboro, NC 27573
Big checks, little checks, all are welcome. Or use the PayPal link above (though we lose 2.2% of your donation to PayPal fees).
Did you enjoy the Forum? Then buy the book! Readers’ favorite selections from seven years of issues. Beyond Mind, Beyond Death is available at Amazon.com.
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