August 2023 TAT Forum

July 31, 2023March 12, 2024 Art Ticknor

This month’s contents include:

Convictions & Concerns: Substantiality vs. Ponderability, by Art Ticknor

TAT Foundation News: Including the calendar of 2023 TAT events and a listing of local group meetings and other activities led by TAT members.

Humor

Inspiration & Irritation

Reader Commentary: What are your convictions about finding Truth / becoming Real (Self-Realization)?

Founder’s Wisdom

A New Home for TAT update

Friday through Sunday, August 18-20, 2023
August 2023 TAT Foundation Gathering: Becoming Truth
More information and registration
Photo by Johannes Plenio on pexels.com

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Contents

Convictions & Concerns

TAT members share their personal convictions and/or concerns

Substantiality vs. Ponderability

There’s a phrase coined by Franklin Merrell-Wolff that struck me as instructive when I read it many years ago. And when something would trigger an occasional memory of it, I’d try to recall the exact wording. That occurred recently, and I checked to make sure I had it right:

Substantiality is inversely proportional to ponderability.

What triggered my most recent recall was a remark someone had made about his ideas not being real. As opposed to what? He didn’t say, but I guessed he was comparing ideas to something like a hand or a table, where perceptions from our five senses convince us of their reality. I wanted to challenge his belief about the relative reality of ideas versus hands or tables, and the Merrell-Wolff phrase came to mind.

What I thought that Merrell-Wolff meant was that ideas or thoughts, for example, were more real than hands or tables. But would dictionary definitions of substantiality and ponderability support that interpretation?

Per thefreedictionary.com, substantiality is the quality of being solid, corporeal, physical, material. And ponderability means considerable enough to be weighed or assessed; appreciable. By those definitions, ideas or thoughts would be less substantial than hands or tables. But I was rather sure that’s not what Merrell-Wolff was saying.

Looking into the etymology of the two terms, ponder comes from Latin ponderare: to weigh or reflect on; and substantial comes from Church Latin substantia: being, essence. Objects in the outer world, the world of our five senses, are heavier—more ponderable—than objects in the middle world of our thoughts and other mind-movement, while the latter are closer to the inner world of our true being or essence.

I know this is all a bit “heady.” 🙂 You may have to ponder the above sentences for a while to see if you can go along with the idea that what at first seems counterintuitive may in fact be more deeply intuitive.

Thinking about the Merrell-Wolff phrase sent me to the Internet to find the context of his aphorism. I located it at https://www.merrell-wolff.org/fmw/philosophy/. Turns out that it encapsulated the third of five realizations or insights that occurred over a period of 14 years. Merrell-Wolff’s description of that third realization is as follows:

As I remember it, the occasion of this Realization was in July of 1936. I was, at that time, standing by a creek in northern California looking at the sky when suddenly it dawned upon me that a fundamental error in our valuation and attribution of reality lay in the fact that we were oriented to the object of cognition; that in reality that object that appears before consciousness is an absence, or rather a relative absence, of substance and reality; and, that in contrast, there, where no object appears before consciousness, such as empty space, there was, in fact, actual substance or reality…. Nonetheless, so far as my conscious field was concerned, this Realization had the force of a major discovery. It took the formulation as follows: Substantiality is inversely proportional to ponderability; or, it could be stated in the form: Reality is inversely proportional to appearance.

In http://www.franklinmerrell-wolff.com/stimulate/philosophy/, the editor of the website’s content (I assume it’s Merrell-Wolff’s granddaughter Doroethy Leonard) expressed the meaning of the phrase more simply:

The third realization (not acknowledged as such at the time) took the form Substantiality Is Inversely Proportional to Ponderability (expressed mathematically as S = 1/P, the basis for the development of his Mandala), which means that the appearances that our minds can most ponder are furthest from what is most Real.

The M-W editor commented in the above link that “whereas most mandalas are aesthetic, this instead is conceptual and theoretical.”

Merrell-Wolff was an admittedly intellectual seeker who had his final realization while studying and meditating on the teachings of the medieval Indian philosopher Shankara [whom M-W felt was an example of an intellectual world-teacher while Jesus was an emotional example and Buddha was balanced between emotion and intellect]. Merrell-Wolff elaborated on the difference between what he called convincements and convictions:

Convincement is a result of a convincing which may very well be achieved through argument, the presenting of evidence, the presenting of good reasons. It is the normal process whereby we become convinced of the truth of a proposition, say in mathematics, by the proof or argument that shows that a certain thesis is true, or the evidence presented by a scientific argument, or, finally, by the evidence supporting a philosophic thesis. One is convinced, but he is not in his total being changed; he may be convinced later of a different position as the result of greater evidence or greater acuity of reasoning. Differences upon the level of convincement do not lead to strong feelings, but involves, usually, a certain detachment in judgment. In fact, convincement is the result of a conscious judgment without a change of psychological state. In contrast, conviction involves a deeper element—the kind of factor which involves much greater certainty and a much larger involvement of the total being. Feeling is much stronger in conviction than in convincement. The attitude in convincement may be detached, and aloof, and cool, but conviction tends to involve an element of warmth, of personal identification with the point of view presented or maintained in the conviction. Conviction is essentially a religious function. It is that which tends to be supremely important for the individual. One does not arrive at conviction by means of discursive argument, but some other factor must be involved. Very often it is a result of a conversion from an opposed point of view that was held earlier, but in the case, in the present case, it was a confirmation of a convincement that was already held but now presented in a form that was overwhelming in its assurance.

He labeled his five realizations as convictions, the first three as preliminary and the last two as fundamental or transcendental. In my view, all realizations other than the final one are intuitional shifts … and intuitional shifts come with great conviction. My final realization was immediately preceded by an intuitional shift, and I might argue or agree that when my mind bowed to the truth of my final realization shortly after my focus came back into the mind, it was an additional intuitional shift.

Merrell-Wolff described his fourth realization as involving “a breakthrough to a well-nigh inconceivable delight; a sense of an inner sweetness; a quality of beauty that could be projected upon the objective world and render all things to become beautiful; a sense of inner assurance; of the transcendence of the transition known as death. The value was supernal, but the judgment, I am Atman, was conceptually the same [as his first realization]; but in a subtle sense there was a difference, in that it involved the breakthrough to a different way of cognition that was non-conceptual. And this Realization did involve the qualities of self-surrender, the sacrifice, the acceptance of the mystic death….”

In my case, the mystic death occurred as the last experience immediately preceding the final realization. In Merrell-Wolff’s case, he said that his final experience occurred 33 days later. He said that his fourth realization was a state of “superlative Joy, Peace, Rest, Freedom, and Knowledge” with “nothing more to wish for.” But he came to see that there was a tension “between being bound to embodied consciousness and not being so bound” that was “incompatible with the perfection of balance.”

The only perfection of balance is our true identity.

All we need to do is to get into rapport with it . . . one time. Well, beyond time.

~ Article by Art Ticknor. Photo by Ben White on Unsplash. Comments or questions? Please email reader commentary to the TAT Forum.

TAT Foundation News

It’s all about “ladder work” – helping and being helped

Richard Rose, the founder of the TAT Foundation, spent his life searching for the Truth, finding it, and helping others to find their Way. Although not well known to the public, he touched the lives of thousands of spiritual seekers through his books and lectures and through personal contacts with local study groups that continue to work with his teachings today. He felt strongly that helping others generates help for ourselves as well in our climb up the ladder to the golden find beyond the mind.

Call To Action For TAT Forum Readers

With the intention of increasing awareness of TAT’s meetings, books, and the Forum among younger serious seekers, and to increase awareness of ways to approach the search for self-definition, the TAT Foundation is now on Instagram.

You can help! A volunteer is producing shareable text-quote and video content of Richard Rose and TAT-adjacent teachers. We need your suggestions for short, provocative 1-3 sentence quotes or 1 minute or less video clips of people like Rose, Art Ticknor, Bob Fergeson, Tess Hughes, Bob Cergol, Bart Marshall, Shawn Nevins, Anima Pundeer, Norio Kushi, Paul Rezendes, Paul Constant, & other favorites. (An example here is selected by the TAT member who volunteers to oversee the Instagram account.)

Please send favorite inspiring/irritating quotes—from books you have by those authors, from the TAT Forum, or any other place—to TAT quotes. If you have favorite parts of longer videos (ex: from a talk at a past TAT meeting), please email a link to the video and a timestamp.

Thank you!

Project: Beyond Mind, Beyond Death II

TAT Press’s Beyond Mind, Beyond Death (BMBD), published in 2008, covers selections from the first seven years of the TAT Forum, from November 2000 to December 2007.

We’ve had 14 additional years of monthly TAT Forum issues since then. And we’re getting ready to launch a project to solicit recommendations from all readers for a 2nd volume of BMBD from the seven years of monthly issues spanning January 2008 to December 2014.

Our approach will be to have a brief, interactive survey each week for participants to rate the items in one issue of the Forum for inclusion in volume II. That will take about 20 months, during which time volunteer co-editors Abhay D. and Michael R. will arrange the selections into chapters and organize the book’s contents. Within 2 years BMBD II should be available in paperback and e-book formats.

Your participation to any extent practical for you will help the best formulation of Beyond Mind, Beyond Death II. If you haven’t opted-in for participation notices, you can sign up at BMBD_II.htm, where you also can find links to all active surveys.

We’ve completed the surveys of the 7 years of TAT Forum issues for Beyond Mind, Beyond Death II. Over the coming months, results will be compiled, and a draft of the book will be created using these results. After final editing, we’ll move towards publishing through the TAT Press! A very sincere thank you to all who participated. The first BMBD was and remains such an amazing compilation of practical and profound wisdom, and we’re very excited to see the second edition begin to take form.”

TAT Foundation Press’s latest publication

Passages: An Introduction and Commentary on Richard Rose’s Albigen System

The latest book from the TAT Foundation Press, Passages: An Introduction and Commentary on Richard Rose’s Albigen System, is now available in print and Kindle versions on Amazon.com. Mike Gegenheimer and Shawn Nevins combined their experience with Rose’s teachings to create this introduction to Rose’s work. Passages highlights the tools and techniques for self-realization that Rose recommended. It is a concise yet deep plunge into these valuable spiritual teachings.

Please add your review to the Amazon listing. It makes a difference!

Random rotation of
TAT Foundation Books & Videos

Watch a clip: What is Spiritual Action?

2023 TAT Meeting Calendar

February Virtual Gathering: Saturday, February 4, 2023
April Gathering: Friday evening through Sunday noon, April 14-16, 2023
May TAT Talks online event: May 13, 2023 at 12 PM ET
June Gathering: Friday evening through Sunday noon, June 9-11, 2023
July TAT Talks online event: July 15, 2023 at 12 PM ET
** August Gathering: Friday evening through Sunday noon, August 18-20, 2023 **
** September Virtual Gathering: Saturday, September 30, 2023 (new date) **
November Gathering: Friday evening through Sunday noon, November 10-12, 2023

See August TAT Gathering page for more details and registration. Comments or questions? Please email TAT Foundation events.

TAT’s YouTube Channel

Have you seen the TAT Foundation’s YouTube channel? Subscribe now for spiritual inspiration (and irritation)!

Volunteers have been updating the channel with hours of new content! They’ve also curated some great playlists of talks by Richard Rose, teacher talks from recent & not so recent TAT meetings, episodes of the Journals of Spiritual Discovery podcast, and other great TAT related videos from around the internet.

Featuring: Richard Rose, Bob Cergol, Shawn Nevins, Bob Fergeson, Mike Conners, Anima Pundeer, Norio Kushi, Paul Rezendes, Bob Harwood, Tess Hughes, Art Ticknor, Shawn Pethel, Tyler Matthew and other speakers.

This month’s video is a short clip on “Get In Touch With The Intelligence That’s Running The Show” from Bob Harwood’s talk at the August 2022 TAT Foundation gathering:

Local Group News

(Groups with recently updated information are listed first. Click the “read more” link to see a complete listing of local groups. )

Update from the Central New Jersey Group Central New Jersey Self Inquiry:
The Central Jersey Self Inquiry Group welcomes serious participants. We are a small group and meet every other Sunday from 6pm to 7pm eastern time on zoom.
Members of the NY City Self Inquiry Group and the Central Jersey Inquiry Group worked together to hold a one-day retreat recently. The retreat was held in person at a public space in New York City with 8 people participating. The retreat started with each participant sharing his or her intention/reason for attending. In one session, quotes from teachers were read; participants wrote down and shared what arose for them in hearing each quote. In another session, the topic “what is progress for you” was the group-inquiry prompt.
~ For meeting info: facebook.com/groups/429437321740752. Questions? for more details.

Update from the New York City self-inquiry group:
The New York City Self-Inquiry group meets by Zoom every Monday from 6-8 PM EST. You can use this link. Our format is inspired by Art Ticknor’s self-inquiry retreats, giving equal time for each person to answer a spiritual, philosophical, or personal “question of the week.” By asking questions, we practice being sincere and reminding one another about the great mysteries of life.
Regarding the recent NYC SIG get-together with the NJ SIG, the participants also followed a guided meditation recording of Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu and were led in tai chi exercises. For some attendees, it marked the first in-person event with the local NYC group since the pandemic. There were also first-time attendees who had only met on Zoom previously. Some attendees travelled 2 hours one-way (or more). There was lunch in-between and friendly, joking conversation in the course of the day which started at 10:30 AM and ended around 5 PM.
~ More details, as well as our weekly discussion topics, are available on our MeetUp page (first link above) and via email at .

Update for the Online Self-Inquiry Book Club:
> The book club will continue discussion of Passages: An Introduction and Commentary on Richard Rose’s Albigen System by Mike Gegenheimer and Shawn Nevins.
The meeting schedule is now on Sundays from 2:00 PM ET–3:30 PM ET with discussion topics:
– “Intuition” August 6
– “Threefold Path” for August 20
For more information on book club participation, see the meeting website (link above).
TAT Forum readers are welcome to drop in any time (invitation to Sunday meetings).

Update from the Pittsburgh, PA self-inquiry group:
> In-person monthly meetings will resume in Pittsburgh for interested parties!
> Online group confrontation and individual contributions every Wed, 8:00 pm ET via Zoom.
> See the e-mail link below for invitations to all meetings.
– Wed, Aug 2: Gloria N. will present and monitor our meeting. – Sun, Aug 6: “Intuition.” Dan G. hosts the Online Self-Inquiry Book Club alternate Sundays at 2:00 pm ET discussion of Passages: An Introduction and Commentary on Richard Rose’s Albigen System by Mike Gegenheimer and Shawn Nevins. Here is the link to join the meeting.
– Wed, Aug 9: Shawn Pethel guest.
– Wed, Aug 16: Lenny S. will present and monitor our meeting.
– Sun, Aug 20: “Threefold Path.” Online Self-Inquiry Book Club discussion.
– Wed, July 19: Tyler Matthew guest.
– Wed, Aug 23: “Upon Entering the Spiritual Desert.”
– Sun, Aug 27: Joint confrontation meeting 2-4pm ET with Dublin, IE group. Patrick K. will host.
– Wed, Aug 30: “Psychological and Mystical Struggles.”
> All Forum subscribers are welcome to join us.
Email to receive weekly topics with preparatory notes and Zoom invitations. Current events are listed on Meetup as Pittsburgh Self-inquiry Group and on www.pghsig.org.

Update for the Amsterdam, NL Self-Inquiry Group:
The group is not holding meetings currently, but email for information.

Update from the Central Ohio Non-Duality Group:
The Central Ohio Non-Duality Group has continued to meet virtually during the pandemic with a group of core members. As a result, the participants now dial in beyond Central Ohio from CA, TX, MD, NC and OH. We will continue to meet virtually on Tuesday evenings at 6:30 to 8:30 PM and welcome new participants. The meetings feature confrontation sessions that are a serious effort to engage in self-inquiry with the help of friends on the path. New participants can begin by first observing the process, if they wish, to understand the purpose and nature of such efforts by like-minded seekers. The Central Ohio Non-Duality Group recently posted the meeting link to its local Meet-Up site inviting new participants. If interest is shown for in-person meetings by participants in the Central Ohio area, in-person meetings will be re-started on a second evening. ~ For further information, contact , , or . We’re also on Facebook.

TAT Press publishes Mike’s Passages: An Introduction and Commentary on Richard Rose’s Albigen System co-authored with Shawn Nevins.

Update from the Dublin, Ireland self-inquiry group:
We meet every second Wednesday on Zoom. We are working using two different approaches. The first is the standard confrontation approach of people giving an update on what was coming for them in the previous period, in terms of their path. The second is the distribution of a piece in advance for reflection. We will continue in this vein for the time being, using either a general update or a piece for reflection shared in advance. ~ Contact for more information.
We also meet online using Google Meet at least every second Sunday. The format so far is participants will talk solo for about 5 to 10 minutes on their reactions to the meeting’s given topic and then respond to questions from the others present. Information is given in the “What we are about” section of the Sunday group’s Meetup main page about becoming a member, etc. The online format is good to accommodate seekers who live far apart, but the hope would be every once in a while to have in-person events. Live meetings can provide new insights that may not occur in virtual meetings and could be either via a TAT retreat or an organised event within the group.~ Contact for more information.
Our group has started to do in-person meetings in southern Ireland. As the first meeting has gone well, the consensus is to hold them monthly or bimonthly. Currently, the venue is “The Cahir House Hotel” in Cahir, Tipperary, from 8 am to 4 or 5 pm on a chosen Saturday, and folks can hang out longer if they wish. Meetings have scheduled topics provided by the participants in advance of the meeting. There is a group rapport session during the day for an hour, which got good feedback last time. And finally, we try to stick to a theme for the day in the same style as the TAT retreats. For more information, contact Patrick or Colm.

Update from the email self-inquiry groups:
The Women’s Online Confrontation (WOC) group consists of weekly reports where participants can include:
     > What is on your mind?
     > Any projects that you want to be held accountable for?
     > Responses to a selected excerpt (in the previous report).
     > Comments/responses/questions for other participants.
     A philosophical/spiritual excerpt with two or three questions is included in each report. Based on what we share, participants ask questions to help get clarity about our thinking. The intention is to help each other see our underlying beliefs about who we are.
     One rule we try to adhere to is not to give advice or solve problems. The number of participants, to make it work efficiently, is between 4 and 7 including the leader.
We continue to have two men’s email groups active. Since the beginning of the year, four participants have left and one other participant has returned. The weekly reports function like slow-motion self-inquiry confrontation meetings, which has its pros and cons. We alternate by asking each other questions one week then answering them the following week. Participants provide brief updates of highlights from the previous week and optional updates on progress toward objectives that they use the reports for accountability on.
Both the women’s and the men’s email groups welcome serious participants. ~ Contact or for more information.

TAT Press publishes Anima’s and Art’s book: Always Right Behind You: Parables & Poems of Love & Completion.

Update from the Gainesville, FL self-inquiry group:
We continue to meet at the Alachua County main library on Saturdays from 2 to 4 PM. We typically schedule meetings for alternate Saturdays with an occasional extra week between meetings due to holidays or the TAT meeting schedule and our group’s associated retreats. We talk with newcomers about the objective of the group as a forum to stimulate the progress of self-inquirers and we ask them what their most heartfelt life-objective is, and then we usually listen to each volunteer who want to talk and then be questioned about what they’ve said.~ Email or for more information.

The Gainesville self-inquiry group is planning a five-night intensive retreat at the Domincan Retreat Center in Dublin, IE on Friday-Wednesday, September 15–20, 2023. The theme is “Sitting Down Near” (from the translation of the Sanskrit term Upaniṣad: upa “by” and ni-ṣad “sit down”).

TAT Press publishes three of Art’s books: Solid Ground of Being: A Personal Story of the Impersonal, Beyond Relativity: Transcending the Split Between Knower & Known, Sense of Self: The Source of All Existential Suffering?, and a fourth book, Always Right Behind You: Parables & Poems of Love & Completion co-authored with Anima Pundeer.

Update from the GMT Support Group for Seekers:
We meet every Sunday gmt 18.30, live on Google Meet. Rapport and confrontation, talk and exchange.
Someone mostly brings a theme, like a text, poem or whatever to set the mood. Then 10 minutes of silent rapport after which everyone gets their turn on the “hot seat” for 10-15 minutes—the group listens to what the person has to say about the theme then asks friendly questions—depending on how many participants we are. The questioning is aimed at providing material for self-inquiry. There have been sessions in which we just chatted, but that is more the exception. ~ Contact .

Update from the Greensburg, PA self-inquiry group:
My Greensburg SIG group is currently in hiatus. I would like to have meetings in person again sometime in the future. But in the meantime, if you have any inquiries, or have an interest in helping me set up local meetings to meet again in person, you can email me at .

An update from the self-inquiry group in Houston, TX:
We have merged our Zoom meetings with the Monday Night Confrontation group, which meets at 7:30 pm EST / 6:30 pm CST. ~ Contact for more information.

TAT Press publishes Anima’s and Art’s book: Always Right Behind You: Parables & Poems of Love & Completion.

“Ignoramuses Anonymous” blog
Ignoramuses Anonymous is for seekers to explore questions together…a fellowship of seekers for whom ignorance of the absolute truth had become a major problem. It started as a blog for Pittsburgh PSI meeting members back in 2009. Welcoming discussion on the path.

Ig Anon looks inactive again. The idea is to have a kind of seeker’s blog to process our thinking out loud and hopefully also help seekers new to group work see what we’re thinking about and if it resonates. My feeling is shorter posts in a range of 100-300 words are easier to put together and probably to read than recent 1000-word posts; however, there are no rules about it.
WordPress.com free tier is starting to look like Times Square with all its ads. I think the blog needs to be hosted somewhere to really restart it, and will try first at Firstknowthyself.org. Once it’s moved, then it would be great to see if it can be useful again!
See this post from a Four-day isolation retreat at TAT Center, with photos and YouTube clips.

Update from the Lynchburg, VA self-inquiry group:
We have been meeting on Thursday evenings from 7pm—8:30pm, online, via zoom. Norio Kushi, Paul Rezendes, and Bob Harwood are consistent guests. We’ve also had some other interesting characters show up from time to time. Topics come from readings or questions brought up by our members. These are sent out, along with the zoom invitation each week. Recently we posted some “considerations” for joining our group:
** Try to frame your comments as questions to Norio, Paul, or Bob. Draw these questions from you own experience rather than generalities. Maintain attention and discussion on the question rather than philosophical musings.
** Question other participants, in the spirit of group-assisted self inquiry, but without attempting to lead them to any particular conclusion or bring attention to yourself.
**Allow for and attend to the silence and the space that is always present. When you aren’t speaking, see that as your role—to hold that space.
**Question, in yourself, the use of personal story-telling and quoting others—though sometimes both are helpful and appropriate.
**Consider the way in which you are listening. Does it have a quality of acquisitiveness or openness?
**Continue to question your own intention for coming to this meeting and let that guide any comments/questions/discussion.
~ Please contact or if you’re interested in being on the email list.

Update from the Monday Night Confrontation Group:

The Monday Night Confrontation (MNC) online meeting is going strong with a core group of participants and room for a few more. Meetings are at 7:30 pm EST / 6:30 pm CST and use the Zoom video conference platform. The group practices confrontation/self-inquiry in a spirit of helpfulness with the goal of finding answers from within. If you are interested in joining or would like more information, email .

Update for the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area self-inquiry:
We meet at the Chapel Hill Public Library on alternate Saturdays from 1:00 to 2:30 PM, in meeting room D.
~ Email with any questions.

Update from the Raleigh, NC Triangle Inquiry Group:
We’re a small group that these days meets every first and third Tuesday of the month via Zoom. We usually have four to eight participants and new members are welcome. Except for a brief hiatus, we’ve been meeting regularly since the late 1990’s. Our main focus is on looking at beliefs that can get us stuck in habitual ways of thinking which can limit the possibility of seeing the true nature of things. Although I act as a sort of MC in our meetings, there’s no teacher or group leader and we all try to help each other in the search for the Real. ~ Email for more details.

Update from the San Francisco Bay area self-inquiry group:
See the Shawn Nevins interview by Iain McNay of Conscious.tv, kicking off the publication of Shawn’s book Subtraction: The Simple Math of Enlightenment. ~ Email for information about upcoming meetings and events.

TAT Press publishes Shawn’s Images of Essence: The Standing Now, which features his poems with photos by Bob Fergeson, The Celibate Seeker: An Exploration of Celibacy as a Modern Spiritual Practice, Subtraction: The Simple Math of Enlightenment, Hydroglyphics: Reflections on the Sacred, which features his poems with photos by Phaedra Greenwood, and Passages: An Introduction and Commentary on Richard Rose’s Albigen System co-authored with Mike Gegenheimer.

Update from the Washington DC Area Self-Inquiry Discussion Group:
[This group was previously listed as the Rockville, MD self-inquiry group.] We’ve been meeting monthly at Rockville, MD Memorial Library. While the library is closed for public health reasons, we’re participating more in a weekly online book club. Forum readers are welcome to participate. ~ For more information, please email or see the website http://firstknowthyself.org/virtual/.

Members-Only Area

A password-protected section of the website is available for TAT members. (Note that there’s an occasional glitch that, when you try to link to the members-only area or a sections within it, you’ll get a page-not-found error. If you try the link a second time, it should work.) Contents include:

How you can help TAT and fellow seekers,
Audio recordings of selected sessions from 2008–2019 in-person meetings and from February and November 2021 Zoom meetings,
Resources and ideas for those planning a group spiritual retreats,
Photographs of TAT meeting facilities, the Richard Rose grave site, a rare 1979 photo, and aerial photos of the Rose farm,
Presenters’ talk notes from April TAT meetings in 2005–2007, and
TAT News Letters from 1996–2013 and Annual Retrospectives from 1973 thru 2011. The Retrospectives from 1973–1985 were written by Richard Rose and are replete with ideas on the workings of a spiritual group—rich historical content.
TAT policies, TAT business meeting notes, and other information.

Latest recordings:

TAT’s November 2021 online gathering, titled What Do You Really, Really Want From Life?: 3.5 hours of selected sessions.

In Thought, Word and Deed : 2.5 hours of selected sessions.

TAT’s August 2019 Workshop was titled Beyond Mindfulness: Meditation and the Path Within and included three guest speakers who each led separate workshops. The following audio recordings are now available in the members-only website area:

“Mindfulness. Is it just another spiritual buzzword?” with Bob Cergol,
“The Path of Direct Sensory Perception” with Bob Harwood, and
“The Art of Mindfulness is the Passion for Truth” with Paul Rezendes.

TAT’s June 2019 Spiritual Retreat Weekend was titled Between You and the Infinite. The following audio recordings are now available in the members-only website area:

“Coming Home (aka The End of Seeking)” by Don Oakley, and
“What’s in the Way?” by Eshwar Segobind.

TAT’s April 2019 Spiritual Retreat Weekend was titled Once in a Lifetime is Now. The following audio recordings are now available in the members-only website area:

“Recognizing the Human Dilemma” by Norio Kushi,
“Strategies for Self-Realization” by Bart Marshall,
Untitled session by Paul Hedderman, and
“A Session in the Now” by Paul Rezendes.

Please us if you have questions. (Look here for info on TAT membership.)

Amazon and eBay

Let your Amazon purchases and eBay sales raise money for TAT!

As an Amazon Associate TAT earns from qualifying purchases made through links on our website.

TAT has registered with the eBay Giving Works program. You can list an item there and select TAT to receive a portion of your sale. Or if you use the link and donate 100% of the proceeds to TAT, you won’t pay any seller fees when an item sells and eBay will transfer all the funds to TAT for you. Check out our Giving Works page on eBay. Click on the “For sellers” link on the left side of that page for details.

Downloadable/rental versions of the Mister Rose video and of April TAT talks Remembering Your True Desire:

Your Contributions to TAT News

TAT founder Richard Rose believed that working with others accelerates our retreat from untruth. He also felt that such efforts were most effective when applied with discernment, meaning working with others on the rungs of the ladder closest to our own. The TAT News section is for TAT members to communicate about work they’ve been doing with or for other members and friends. Please your “ladder work” news.

Humor {(h)yo͞omər}

“One thing you must be able to do in the midst
of any experience is laugh. And experience
should show you that it isn’t real, that it’s a
movie. Life doesn’t take you seriously, so why
take it seriously.” ~ Richard Rose, Carillon

Honesty

Thanks to Dan G. Image appears on FB pages of two plumbers, one in FL and one in OK.

Fave Way to Online Shop

~ Sign at the El Arroyo restaurant in Austin, TX.

Before Yelp

~ Thanks to Dan M. Original source unknown. Appears widely on the web.

Inspiration & Irritation

Irritation moves us; inspiration provides a direction

Desire to Be Re-Absorbed

I used to be fascinated as a child by the behavior of a glob of mercury—splitting it into tiny droplets and then watching those separate pieces “rush into each other” when in close proximity. The essence of individuals is like so many scattered bits of mercury that are drawn to each other as a manifestation in this dimension of the “desire to be re-absorbed” into the One-ness from which they’ve all split. We cannot get close enough to each other. And a lifetime of accidental patterns “conspires” to block our “rejoining.”

[My friend] described to me the strange “timeless” mood in her mother’s house with all of them there, while her mother lay in bed dying. The proximity of death is like an enzyme that thins the boundaries. In this condition individuals rush together to embrace each other, to embrace that which unites us all.

~ Thanks to Bob Cergol. Image “Globs and Lines” from Mike Cofrancesco on flickr.com.

Two Sorts of Thinking

“Whatever a monk keeps pursuing with his thinking & pondering, that becomes the inclination of his awareness.” ~ Gautama Buddha

~ Quote from the Dvedhāvitakka Sutta. Image by Brigitte Werner on pixabay.com.

Genius Takes Effort?

I found the curious story of László Polgár very stimulating. Polgár was a Hungarian chess teacher and educational psychologist born in 1946 who believed that “geniuses are made, not born”. To prove his theory, he proceeded to systematically instruct his three daughters in chess from a very young age. All three sisters became top-6 ranked female chess players in the world, while Judit is considered to be the greatest female chess player in history since she is the only female player to ever rank in the top-10 along with male players.

I find it fascinating how his theory was proven in practice and that none of the three daughters failed to become great at chess. According to the Wikipedia article, all three were happy with their training and unusual upbringing.

I notice too that whenever I observe great ability in someone practicing in a discipline that I know little about, I explain their great ability with them being “talented”, a “genius”, or them having some lucky character trait or even near-psychic ability beyond us ordinary folk. But whenever I’ve climbed the ranks of ability in a certain discipline, I’ve always come to see that there is some system or knowledge that can be both learned and taught – and that improvement in this ability comes with a genuine interest followed by a lot of plain time and effort.

Could great success in spiritual matters be likewise explained by a supportive environment, genuine interest, and sustained effort over many years?

~ Thanks to Mario P. Image by Brett Jordan on Unsplash.com. Proofreader extraordinare Brett S. commented on this quote in the Wikipedia link above:

Polgár’s “formula for happiness,” wrote Hartston, “is ‘work, love, freedom, and luck’. But the key is hard work because hard work creates luck; work plus luck equals genius; and a genius is more likely to be happy.”

See the related Reader Commentary question for Next Month below.

Carl Jung Quotes

“If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s.”

“The privilege of a lifetime is to become who you truly are.”

“Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.”

“Wholeness is not achieved by cutting off a portion of one’s being but by the integration of the contraries.”

~ From an eight-minute YouTube video, Carl Jung’s Quotes About Life that are better known in Youth Before Regret in Old Ages

Please your thoughts on the above items.

Reader Commentary

Encouraging interactive readership among TAT members and friends

A reader wrote that what would make the Forum more interesting would be:

Hearing from people who are searching—and have questions instead of those providing endless advice and “answers.” What challenges they are facing. What their doubts and questions are. How they perceive their path is going. What they are doing in their lives. Where they think they will end up, etc., etc.

Can you help make the Forum more interesting?

The Reader Commentary question for the August TAT Forum is:

What are your convictions about finding Truth / becoming Real (Self-Realization)?

Responses follow:

From Patrick K:

What captures the mood of becoming real for me can be felt in Bob Dylan’s song “Desolation Row”. I am not a Dylanologist, but I take my own personal meaning from songs. I see Desolation Row to be the state of Between-ness, a term Rose used as being an optimal state for realisation. It is getting the “bird’s-eye” view of the game of life, the theatre show that is playing out where nothing really is actually happening. It’s desolate because you see the illusion. But it’s poignant and nostalgic because you are also grateful to be outside of the illusion. The world still has it’s relative importance but it can never threaten or have a hold on you like before. Between-ness is keeping both feet inside desolation row; if you feel depressed or conceited, that is ego flaring up, and you’re stepping outside the line again. I sense the path toward Self-realisation is treading the path along desolation row. Hubert Benoit talks about “compensation”, that element that props up the ego, justifying my sense of importance. Compensation keeps us outside of desolation row. It’s not easy to stay within desolation row because there is mention in the song as follows:

“And (the) superhuman crew
Go out and round up everyone
That knows more than they do (Knows more than they do)
They’re going to bring them to the factory
Where the heart-attack machine
Is strapped across their shoulders
And then the kerosene

[Chorus]
Is brought down from the castles
By insurance men who go
Check to see that no one is escaping to
Desolation Row”.

From Lenny S:

I don’t have any “convictions about finding Truth … since I don’t know what “Truth” is … nor do i know what “becoming Real (Self-Realization)” is (and btw, i am very leery about the use of the words “finding” & “becoming Real”) … maybe another question: “What are my convictions about retreating from untruth”? (which of course would entail retreating from my projected sense of s/Self, from my blindness and deafness) and by saying this, let me point out that i am not expecting to “find” anything. What will be will be. SO … now that i’ve redefined the question, i guess i should answer it. Retreating from untruth is self-validating … it does not have to be a means to an end … am i curious about “an end”? … i think so, but there is an equal amount of trepidation as well … i won’t “go” easy.

From Dunja K:

I can’t say these are convictions (because I’m missing proof for these yet, hehe), but I’d say they are more of quiet pointers that I’ve started to follow:
1. I have to make this journey myself (follow “my own” authority).
2. It is possible for me to Self-realize in this lifetime. Thankfully, TAT has a great track record of that (under Rose’s system) and I trust that also I can back away from untruth.
3. It is not enough for me to believe, I need proof now. (Oh, but how to go about it?)
4. I’m not in control. (Well, life bashed me enough to see that holistically, but when the false belief of control keeps coming back I try to use Tess Hughes’ “Thy will vs my will.”)

Some things I’m struggling with is noticing that it’s “easier” to abide as Self (awareness aware of itself) while doing repetitive work (walking, cleaning, cooking, driving, being in nature, etc). While I’m parenting or interacting with others such as working and socializing, that stickiness of being a person in a body/mind comes back. Over time I developed a belief that I need to remove myself from life, aka go to a meditation retreat for example, but then I recently listened to Bob Harwood’s journey on YouTube and something hit me: he said while pouring concrete and dreaming about running away from life (aka into the woods), he asked himself: “What should I be doing at this exact moment?” and the answer was simply: whatever you’re doing right now (pouring concrete). He closed that gap between wishing for something else and accepting as-is fully. I’m focusing on practicing that whenever the mind projects, and also keep asking myself who is experiencing this life movie (especially when events in life appear challenging). That seems to stop the mind, and the little gaps of awareness appear to widen.

From David Low:

The conviction I have about self-realization which may be worth talking about—in my case anyway—is that you need to believe 100% that it exists to begin with. I think this has been my biggest obstacle.
A couple of years ago, I ran across some youtubes connected with a conference of spiritual teachers that took place somewhere, and in connection with that, one of them said one of the most effective ways of teaching meditation involved the question, “Do you believe in enlightenment?” That rang a bell, because I’ve long recognized that one reason I am not yet awake—maybe even the only reason—is that I did not (correction, do not) completely buy the into the concept of self-realization to begin with, as we understand it in TAT. I refer, of course, to the universal understanding of enlightenment help by all renowned mainstream mystics, which embraces all the paths I’ve spent significant time pursuing: Siddha Yoga, Zen Buddhism, Sufi Islam, and TAT. It’s the same thing everywhere.
But you can’t establish it empirically. Enlightenment cannot be quantified, double-checked on, or authenticated. Not a shred of hard evidence testifies to its existence—in those terms, everything that luminaries like Christ, etc., have done throughout history is fluff. Everyone’s pining after enlightenment since day 1 is based on faith and faith alone.
So, I’m a kind of scientific curmudgeon, in spite of myself. Because in my heart I know it’s real, ultimately the only game it town. I sense its existence always, whenever I remember.
I do have a real issue with this… it manifests in the sympathy I have towards atheistic and agnostic stances. Whenever someone voices doubts, I’m the first to chime in with something like, “Yes, I know exactly what you mean! It can sure seem like human beings are just like any other animal in the end. Our intelligence? In that regard, we’re just the best mousetrap God ever built… that’s all it is. It can sure seem like that, right?” Etcetera etcetera.
Writing this makes me realize that one thing I can do to start getting at this issue is not to express that kind of sympathy so readily!

From Rob-In Leeds:

Do I know what I am looking for?
No!
Would “I” recognise Truth?
No!
Will Truth be revealed?
Maybe?
Will Truth reveal Itself?
How can it not, it is Truth!

Becoming Real: I hear and read, in descriptions of Jacob’s Ladder [referring to Richard Rose’s diagram – Ed.] that the Essence realm is more real than the mind realm and body realm, and it is welcome news, to the siren call, the longing to come home.

Becoming real?
Is that possible?
Does a human become real?

Or is this human already really, real and only hidden by the mental noise of knowing about “becoming Real” or “Finding Truth”?

Maybe like a Salmon returning to the source of a river where it was spawned. Truth lies in wait for the expression of itself that showed up in this form, waiting for the mind and body to be seen, perceived by the “umpire” and the “process observer” viewings as mere views.

Maybe, Source reveals the veil, and the ray of creation beckons this seeker to return, backing into the unknown.

The known, manifest mind, the view, divesting itself of form and untruths until the manifesting mind stops and falls into unmanifest source, whatever that direction “going within” is!

From Vincent Lepidi :

My convictions about finding truth can be distilled down to three things. First, that finding the truth is possible. This is based on my own faith as well as the evidence from various contemplative mystics and sages throughout the world over the centuries. Secondly, that I will never feel or be complete in this life until I find the truth. As I see it, all body/mind experience is just an interlude, and there is “something else” I don’t recognize right now but yearn for. Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, finding the truth must be the first priority in my life, above everything else I will do, and must be sought for with as much energy as I can muster. As for the ways and means for finding the truth, they vary, but for me friendship with fellow seekers is important as it helps to keep me motivated as well as being honest with myself.

From Mike W:

What convictions do I have, or have I had? They came and went over the years but behind the changes one conviction remains unabated: that something is off with this multimedia life experience.
That there appears to be an underlying mystery about what life is that we’re not getting. The seeming complexity of life appears to be vast, from the microscopic level to the galactic, and yet the whole thing seems to lack a point. What is this experience of? Billions of body-food factories that require constant tending; sex factories that keep churning out more people; and thought factories spinning out endless dreams. What is this? What am I? What am I doing here?

By design, it is a temporary experience. The seasons change. The seed grows, blossoms, produces a shiny apple which is eventually eaten or falls to the ground. Does the apple know what it is?
Does it care? Does the dreamer ever awaken?
I believe so. That’s all that’s left.

From Art Ticknor:

The story of an individual life is one of becoming, and there are two distinct views of that becoming: one is the view in the mirror, which I assume is how others see us; the second is the view of our inside world. When we find/discover/become our true identity, it involves a type of knowing that the mind wasn’t previously familiar with. Franklin Merrell-Wolff termed it introception. It’s knowing-by-identity. When that occurs, we know that state of being as capital-r Reality. It’s the absolute isness beyond/before the mind’s duality. It’s the capital-s Self beyond/before the small-s self and the conviction of no-self. It’s beyond/before time—what we always have been and ever will be.

From Lieven V:

I am somehow sure that it will not happen this time around for me. Too little motivation, too many hang-ups. Not enough time set aside for enquiry and/or meditation, too much anchored in the day-to-day, too little self-discipline. A scattered mind, with infinite excuses. And tardiness.

From Brett S:

1. Wishing that a spiritual realization will change anything about me or my life is counter-productive
2. Taking action that makes me uncomfortable is more valuable than any feeling or thought
3. How I live my life everyday shows me my level of sincerity
4. True friends help keep you honest
5. A “spiritual” person is willing to see themselves as they are, not as they want to be

From Tina N:

The conviction I have about Truth / becoming Real (Self-Realization) is that it is possible. I have beliefs regarding if it is possible for me. The beliefs fall into two camps: (1) worthiness, and (2) ability. There is also the belief that despite all of above, I am going to give it my best shot.

From Jerry S:

It’s hard to keep an expectation for what I feel I may not deserve. Something that would upset all of reality, life as I know it, something that would be so spectacular, as no experience I have ever had, far more real yet cataclysmic than any movie, dream or imagination could ever portray. What have I done to deserve an escape from a reality in which all the billions of people participate and are held prisoner to? In this sense, “becoming Real” seems an impossibility.

But there is a sense that the I that as portrayed here may not exist at all, so neither may the other billions, nor the experiences of billions of lives lived if there were no “I” experiencer of those lives either. So who watches this portrayal yet doesn’t participate, nor identifies? The impression of being confined to a rock-solid reality begins to fade, and hope as inspiration arises when we begin to feel something tugging at us from an ‘opposite’ or unknown direction.

I gain some tiny ground in meditation and hope it is prolonged–when watching is noticed that it is watching, and like a small wedge separating watching from experiencing a little more each time until there seems to be more like a chasm, and it is never forgotten again. Then watching can look elsewhere. I’m not there yet, other than in glimpses. I want to just not be an experiencer only, and to never forget it ever again either. All I can do in one sense, is to watch my spiritual path continue to unfold. Yet in another sense, any magic can only be tied to a mindfulness that fully and unconditionally participates. Yes, I am committed or perhaps I’ve been convicted, to go to what I most deeply desire. Though I have no idea what that is.

From Mark W:

Right now, I can think of several convictions I have regarding finding the Truth. I think it’s possible for me to find the Truth despite or perhaps through the seemingly endless beliefs I see in my search, especially beliefs about myself. Mainly in working with others, celibacy, confrontation, meditation, rapport, and solo retreats, my intention is to expose my beliefs and the feelings behind them. Perhaps the most important thing is to persist in my search no matter what obstacles I encounter.

From Doug White:

I found the answers I was looking for sometime back. It’s beyond all ideas of conviction or non-conviction. It’s worth dying for and yet is just this.

From Dan G:

I’m lost in a lie like a funhouse nightmare, and I can exit early if my intuition is right and I trust it. I feel afraid to let it decide my actions. It might be necessary to turn my will and my life over to the care of God as I understand him before it’s too late to get to the exit to Truth.

Everyone already hears this call. They differ in how much courage their minds muster to turn towards it.

Next Month

The Reader Commentary question for the September TAT Forum comes from the “Genius Takes Effort?” article above:

What is you feeling about spiritual geniuses? That Self-Realization takes effort (maybe even the 10,000 hours that Malcolm Gladwell asserts in Outliers is necessary for true expertise in any skill)? That “many are called, but few are chosen” in a parable attributed to Jesus Christ?

Please your responses by the 25th of August, and indicate your preferred identification (the default is your first name and the initial letter of your last name). “Anonymous” and pen names are fine, too.

PS: What question(s) would you like to ask other TAT Forum readers?

Q:What are your thoughts on this month’s reader commentary? Please your feedback.

Richard Rose described a spiritual path as living one’s life aimed at finding the meaning of that life. Did you find anything relevant to your life or search in this month’s TAT Forum?

Jomblang Cave – taken during a photo trip to Indonesia in 2018 – by Thomas Fuhrmann – see more pictures on www.snowmanstudios.de

We like hearing from you! Please email your comments, suggestions, inquiries, and submissions.

Founder’s Wisdom

Richard Rose (1917-2005) established the TAT Foundation
in 1973 to encourage people to work together on what
he considered to be the “grand project” of spiritual work.

Quotes and Notes XI from Richard Rose Audiotapes

* Pyramid Zen Meeting *

What was awareness focused on before birth?
Babies have wordless minds.
… a place where there are no verbal thoughts.
True meditation is closing the eyes to all new percepts.
Awareness is the ray of the Absolute.
Through love you communicate with a child.

~ From Shawn Nevins, who commented: “Notes I took from several Rose audiotapes. Direct quotes are in quotation marks, but the rest I assume is paraphrasing.” There are quotes and notes from 20 audiotapes. The first set appeared in the July 2022 Forum with eight additional sets in subsequent Forum issues previous to this. The local self-inquiry groups were called Pyramid Zen groups in the early years of the TAT Foundation.

Definition of Terms

Index of many of the key terms and principles in Rose’s work, with brief definitions, from Richard Rose’s Psychology of the Observer: The Path to Reality Through the Self by John Kent.

Homing Ground Update

… A spot on earth where people can do retreats and hold
meetings; where the emphasis is on friendship and the search.

August 2023:

July donations brought us to 9.1% of our 2023 fundraising goal of $15,750, but the TAT Center’s first floor air conditioning system went kaput in July and had to be replaced for close to $6,000. Thus, we’ve raised about $1,400, while spending $6,000 on just one maintenance item. A few dollars a month from just a portion of you who read the Forum or enjoy visiting the TAT Center would make a big difference, so please consider helping out.

Thanks to all of you for making TAT the extraordinary organization it is.

Sincerely,
Shawn Nevins

PS: Monthly contributions are a great way to support the TAT Center if making a larger one-time donation seems too much. If you’re so inspired, click the Donate button below, then check the box for “Make this a monthly donation” as in the example below:

Let’s bring this to life! “The job is upon us,” Richard Rose said, “and it is worthwhile.” To contribute to the TAT Center, mail a check made out to the TAT Foundation to:

TAT Foundation
PO Box 3402
Roxboro, NC 27573

Big checks, little checks, all are welcome. Or use the PayPal link above (though we lose 2.2% of your donation to PayPal fees).

* See photos and more on the Homing Ground page. *

Did you enjoy the Forum? Then buy the book!
Readers’ favorite selections from seven years of issues.
Beyond Mind, Beyond Death is available at Amazon.com.