Convictions & Concerns: I Am the Doer… Aren’t I? by Alex S.
TAT Foundation News: Including the calendar of 2024 TAT events and a listing of local group meetings organized by TAT members.
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Reader Commentary: Do you have clarity on what you really want out of life? If yes, what contributed to gaining clarity? If not, what are you doing to gain clarity?
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TAT members share their personal convictions and/or concerns
I Am the Doer … Aren’t I?
Shortly after joining an online confrontation group several months ago, I was encouraged to explore my own answers to such ‘free-will’ questions as “Am I the thinker?”, “Am I the decision-maker?”, and “Am I the doer?”
I had already known that these questions feature in the spiritual literature but never paid much attention to the answers it offered. I was also briefly familiar with the philosophy of free will [1], which impressed as an example of elegant thinking, and the psychology of willpower [2], which followed an empirical approach.
My initial position was one that is perhaps commonplace: I am the thinker of my thoughts, the maker of my decisions, and their executor. If I make a decision that I think is against my long-term interests, it is because I lack willpower. I did not presume I had total control over my thoughts or decisions, but I found the suggestion that I might not be the decision-maker aberrant, if not preposterous.
Perhaps it was curiosity about why some clearly lucid and sincere people can answer the questions in a way that was so alien to me that gave the initial impetus to investigate the questions in detail. I was also looking for a practice to do and was attracted to the idea of a mapped-out spiritual path [3]. Later, the motivation changed. As I learned that non-doer experiences are relatively common among seekers, I tried to arrive at the ‘right answer’ and was looking for evidence of my lack of control over thinking and decision making. After a period of struggle and confusion, my motivation changed to merely trying to figure out what my beliefs actually were and what evidence supported them.
My instruments have been observations, in formal meditation and in moments of spontaneous self-remembering, and subsequent attempts to put these observations into words, both in my head and on paper. I have had no flash insights or intuitions. Feelings have provided no source of data but—to my surprise—have been the final arbiter. If a conclusion did not ‘feel right’, it was rejected even if it appeared to be logical.
My current answers to the free-will questions are as follows:
I have thoughts but am not identical with them. Thoughts arise in my consciousness, and I cannot trace their origin. I cannot construct thoughts or control their content. However, I can influence them, however imperfectly. For example, I could ‘turn my inner head’ away from unwanted thoughts. This felt ability gives me a sense of agency and of being the thinker.
The stuff from which decisions are made arrives from the same obscure source as thoughts. Many decisions are made automatically and are barely registered in consciousness. Some decisions arrive in consciousness and are swiftly executed. Some decisions arrive in consciousness and are disliked, but I still feel compelled to execute them. However, many decisions appear in consciousness as seemingly open options. These options I am able either to accept or to reject.
Overall, I feel I have less control over thoughts and decisions than I used to assume. Surrendering the idea of thought control came naturally, but the belief of being the decision-maker and the doer has been stubborn.
Logical flaws in the above statements are glaring. The position that ‘I can decide to think’ and ‘I can think up my decisions’ is circular. The cornerstone position of an ‘I’ that accepts or rejects possible decision contradicts the observation that the acceptance and rejection arrive via the same route as the decisions themselves.
But I feel different. I feel I have agency. I feel I can make decisions. I feel I have control. Ego reigns and has remained impervious to logical arguments.
Perhaps I have hit a barrier for now. I am able to admit it may be possible to see decision-making from a different vantage point, and I no longer automatically dismiss the idea of not being the doer. But it is not how I feel, and I cannot see how further progress can be achieved without a major shift in perspective. Sometimes I even think there was no progress, but I merely spelled out the beliefs I had all along.
I suspect that a change of perspective on being the doer may require a shift more radical than with other self-beliefs, such as the beliefs of being a body or a person. It is natural for me to assume that people may not be responsible for their thoughts but are responsible for their actions. As I look around, I see things being done and I see manifestations of will. To assume that people are not in control would require that I either surrender the belief in will altogether or admit that agency lies with something other than humans. The former idea is repulsive, but the latter is outside of my experience. It seems therefore that a possible change of my self-beliefs would need to be accompanied by a change of beliefs not only about myself but about the wider reality too. (This statement points to my belief of being something separate from the ‘wider reality’, which, I am told, has also been contested).
There have been by-products of this work. One is improved ability for self-observation. I am still unable to observe my thoughts for a more than brief periods before losing myself in them, but I do sometimes register with detachment thoughts and decisions arising in consciousness. Another by-product is becoming more kind and accepting, if not of myself than of other people. Merely contemplating the possibility that other people may not be in control of their decisions and actions removes some edge from social interactions. Another by-product is diminishing of internal arguments about which decisions to make. I do not know what to make of it. On the one hand, it may be a seed of ‘getting out of my own way’. It would be a welcome development and I would gladly carry less of the weight of the world on my shoulders. On the other hand, particularly when my decisions lead to me eating a turkey sandwich too many, I wonder whether the non-doer idea is being used as an excuse for laziness [4] and whether I now have less willpower than I used to.
The word ‘conviction’ implies a strongly held belief, one that was perhaps achieved as a result of an effort and one that people are prepared to defend. The above is a snapshot of my current conviction state, but I have no desire to justify or defend it. Rather, I see it as something potentially temporary, and I admit that other, perhaps superior, views from different vantage points are possible.
[1] see eg. T. Nagel ‘What does it all mean?’, Chapter 6, Oxford University Press (1987)
[2] see eg. K. McGonigal ‘Willpower Instinct’, Avery Publishing Group (2013)
~ Thanks to Alex S. Image created by Alex. Comments or questions? Please email reader commentary to the TAT Forum.
TAT Foundation News
It’s all about “ladder work” – helping and being helped
Richard Rose, the founder of the TAT Foundation, spent his life searching for the Truth, finding it, and helping others to find their Way. Although not well known to the public, he touched the lives of thousands of spiritual seekers through his books and lectures and through personal contacts with local study groups that continue to work with his teachings today. He felt strongly that helping others generates help for ourselves as well in our climb up the ladder to the golden find beyond the mind.
Call To Action For TAT Forum Reader
With the intention of increasing awareness of TAT’s meetings, books, and the Forum among younger serious seekers, and to increase awareness of ways to approach the search for self-definition, the TAT Foundation is now on Instagram.
You can help! A volunteer is producing shareable text-quote and video content of Richard Rose and TAT-adjacent teachers. We need your suggestions for short, provocative 1-3 sentence quotes or 1 minute or less video clips of people like Rose, Art Ticknor, Bob Fergeson, Tess Hughes, Bob Cergol, Bart Marshall, Shawn Nevins, Anima Pundeer, Norio Kushi, Paul Rezendes, Paul Constant, & other favorites. (An example here is selected by the TAT member who volunteers to oversee the Instagram account.)
Please send favorite inspiring/irritating quotes—from books you have by those authors, from the TAT Forum, or any other place—to TAT quotes. If you have favorite parts of longer videos (ex: from a talk at a past TAT meeting), please email a link to the video and a timestamp.
Thank you!
After the Absolute: The Inner Teachings of Richard Rose
A transcript approved by the authors is now available, or purchase the book on Amazon.
Richard Rose was an unlikely Zen master…. David Gold was an unlikely student….
“After the Absolute is one of the most gripping, intensely interesting, dramatic, and indeed romantic-heroic-mythic, yet poignantly human accounts I have ever read….” ~ Joseph Chilton Pearce, author of The Crack in the Cosmic Egg.
TAT Foundation Press’s latest publications
Message In A Bottle: Reflections On The Spiritual Path
Message In A Bottle: Reflections On The Spiritual Path relates the ongoing struggles and triumphs of fellow seekers. This collection of insightful essays serves as a testament to resilience, patience, and unwavering determination in the pursuit of inner truth and understanding. It is now available in print and Kindle versions as well as TAT Press’s first audiobook (individual purchase or membership) on Amazon.com.
What is the difference between the wisdom of seekers and the wisdom of “Finders”? This book suggests a surprising alternative to those experts, gurus, teachers and authors who are supposedly the Finders in the fields of spiritual seeking, psychology and healthy, happy and successful living.
We are a culture addicted to success, and honor those whom we consider a success by seeking their expertise, authority and insight as if to guarantee our own success. There is a huge fallacy possible in seeking advice from outside when we avoid or ignore inner guidance, intuition or wisdom that might already be active and available to us. That is just what this book is about: if one could summon their best advice to guide one’s self in the past. But really, that advice may be just as applicable in the present, if I only listen. The wisdom of 14 seekers in the book is spellbinding as they relate wrestling with night-terror, drug experiences, making commitments, “restless psyche syndrome,” the mysteries of the “unseen,” facing “a change somewhere within me now,” to “be still,” committing to solo retreats, giving in to “nostalgia and love” and the big one: pride and the ego-self. I found myself throughout the book “spinning-off” to contemplate many of the same “what if’s” and “had I onlys” along with my own ensuing insights as a result.
There’s a quote in the preface that sums up these first-hand accounts nicely: “If (someone’s) tale ends with ‘I struggled, rested, struggled, rested (and that) feels like I haven’t made a bit of progress but am still struggling’—that would be encouraging to read.” The same person adds that the wisdom of seeking is that we learn by contrast and comparison. I believe people seeking answers to life’s “Big Questions” either through spirituality, psychology, philosophy, religion or academia will find this book eye-opening by both the wisdom and folly described by seekers who experience so many things rarely revealed with which the reader might resonate and contemplate.
Please add your review to the Amazon listing. It makes a difference!
*
Shades of Real: Poems in a World of Wonder
Shades of Real by Kevin Shuey is now available in print and Kindle versions on Amazon.com. Discover a captivating compilation of poems that gracefully ride the waves of each fleeting moment, inviting readers into moments of tranquil excitement and resounding quietude. Within these pages lie enigmatic verses that lead us to the very heart of our true selves, unraveling the profound mysteries that define us.
I am not a big fan of poetry. I always felt the cleverness of rhyme and the wisdom of prose rarely merged into unity as beauty or wisdom, and I didn’t have the patience to search for examples to the contrary. But a friend suggested this short collection, and I was rewarded with the unexpected. The author is a deep thinker, a seeker and lover, and his work is a sensitivity to his “World of Wonder” gracefully represented in metaphors and analogies that mostly rang true with me. When he used rhyme, his choices fit, were simple and spot on. Just to highlight a few gems I found:
In “It Never Was” he suggests that if the road turns East, and that I must forget the past, what I was doing, and to figure how to navigate East, too. In my later years of life, this analogy seems more than applicable.
In “View From the Heart” he ponders a mental complexity as we observe our surroundings and “What seems to keep our selves apart Is cleared away, seen from the heart.”
And others: “The magic is in the listening…. Attention will loosen the purse strings, and purchase what must be.”
Between thinking and the heart: “One binding, but let the story grow, the ringing that we hear—that bell, is self struck, in one infinite appeal.”
The am without the I: the flight without the arrow.
The universe itself is what is choosing. As for us, to BE is all we ever do.
In the hope that someday what I hear will not be me. But just an empty boat, adrift on still water.
In his final section, he uses both prose and rhyme to convince us that green is sacred.
Please add your review to the Amazon listing. It makes a difference!
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Pouring Concrete: A Zen Path to the Kingdom of God – Expanded Edition
Pouring Concrete by Bob Harwood is now available in print and Kindle versions on Amazon.com. Individuals who approach this book with receptivity and a readiness to scrutinize their culturally ingrained notions and convictions regarding the fundamental fabric of existence are likely to experience a multitude of profound insights. By embracing the diverse recommendations within these pages, one may unlock a series of existential revelations that have the potential to reshape their perspective on reality.
Please add your review to the Amazon listing. It makes a difference!
The Mister Rose video: "There's a system that searches for the Truth, and it's a process of challenging everything."
Richard Rose speaks directly to the hearts and minds of his listeners. This special video serves
as an excellent introduction to his thoughts on the spiritual path. Read more
and watch a video trailer.
January TAT Talks online event: January 27, 2024 at 12 PM ET February Virtual Gathering: Saturday, February 24, 2024 March TAT Talks online event: March 23, 2024 at 12 PM ET April Gathering: Friday evening through Sunday noon, April 12-14, 2024 ** May TAT Talks online event: May 11, 2024 at 12 PM ET ** ** June Gathering: Friday evening through Sunday noon, June 14-16, 2024 ** August Gathering: Friday evening through Sunday noon, August 16-18, 2024 November Gathering: Friday evening through Sunday noon, November 8-10, 2024
Have you seen the TAT Foundation’s YouTube channel? Subscribe now for spiritual inspiration (and irritation)!
Volunteers have been updating the channel with hours of new content! They’ve also curated some great playlists of talks by Richard Rose, teacher talks from recent & not so recent TAT meetings, episodes of the Journals of Spiritual Discovery podcast, and other great TAT related videos from around the internet.
Featuring: Richard Rose, Bob Cergol, Shawn Nevins, Bob Fergeson, Mike Conners, Anima Pundeer, Norio Kushi, Paul Rezendes, Bob Harwood, Tess Hughes, Art Ticknor, Shawn Pethel, Tyler Matthew and other speakers.
This month’s video is an April 2012 interview of Art Ticknor by Iain McNay of conscious.tv:
Local Group News
(Groups with recently updated information are listed first. Click the “read more” link to see a complete listing of local groups. )
Update for the Online Self-Inquiry Book Club:
> The current book is Jim Burns’s At Home With the Inner Self (Kindle and paperback or html), meeting first and third Sundays from 2:00 PM ET–3:30 PM ET: – May 5: Philosophy, Mysticism, and The Other Side, Q&A with Jim Burns 2006 (new to 3rd edition), & Biography. > Then we plan to switch to the close 2nd in votes: Ashtavakra Gita, translation by Bart Marshall. – May 19: Preface, Introduction, 1: Instruction on Self-Realization, & 2: Joy of Self-Realization. – June 2: Chapters 3-8: Test of Self-Realization, Glorification of Self-Realization, Four Ways to Dissolution, The Higher Knowledge, Nature of Self-Realization, Bondage and Liberation. – June 23: Chapters 9-14: Detachment, Quietude, Wisdom, Abiding in the Self, Happiness, Tranquility. – July 7: Chapters 15-17: Knowledge of the Self, Special Instructions, The True Knower. – July 21: Chapter 18: Peace. – August 4: Chapters 19-20: Repose in the Self, Liberation-in-Life.
> Use the e-mail link below for invitations to all meetings and to receive internal email announcements. > In-person bi-weekly meetings: (look for red raincoat on the back of a chair!) – Mon, May 6, 2-4PM: Dobrá Tea Pittsburgh, 1937 Murray Ave, Squirrel Hill – Mon, May 20: 7-9PM: Univ of PGH Cathedral of Learning, Main Room. > Online group confrontation and individual contributions every Wed, 8:00 pm ET via Zoom. – Wed, May 1: Online: Rob from Leeds will host “Waking, Dreaming, Deep Sleep States”. – Wed, May 8: Online: Shawn Nevins guest. – Wed, May 15: Online: Tyler M. guest: “What are you struggling with?” – Wed, May 22: Online: Shawn Pethel guest. – Sun, May 26: Online meeting with Dublin Self-inquiry Group 2-4 PM ET. – Wed, May 29: Online: Phil C. guest. > All Forum subscribers are welcome to join us. Email to receive weekly topics with preparatory notes and Zoom invitations. Current events are listed on Meetup as Pittsburgh Self-inquiry Group and on www.pghsig.org.
Update for the Amsterdam, NL Self-Inquiry Group: The group is not holding meetings currently, but email for information.
Update from the Central New Jersey Self Inquiry Group: The Central Jersey Self Inquiry Group welcomes serious participants. We are a small group and meet every other Sunday from 6pm to 7pm eastern time on zoom. Members of the NY City Self Inquiry Group and the Central Jersey Inquiry Group worked together to hold an in-person, one-day retreat in Hamilton, NJ recently. ~ For meeting info: facebook.com/groups/429437321740752. Questions?for more details.
Update from the Central Ohio Non-Duality Group: The Central Ohio Non-Duality Group has continued to meet virtually during the pandemic with a group of core members. As a result, the participants now dial in beyond Central Ohio from CA, TX, MD, NC and OH. We will continue to meet virtually on Tuesday evenings at 6:30 to 8:30 PM and welcome new participants. The meetings feature confrontation sessions that are a serious effort to engage in self-inquiry with the help of friends on the path. New participants can begin by first observing the process, if they wish, to understand the purpose and nature of such efforts by like-minded seekers. The Central Ohio Non-Duality Group recently posted the meeting link to its local Meet-Up site inviting new participants. If interest is shown for in-person meetings by participants in the Central Ohio area, in-person meetings will be re-started on a second evening. ~ For further information, contactor. We’re also on Facebook.
Update from the Dublin, Ireland self-inquiry group: We meet every second Wednesday on Zoom. We are working using two different approaches. The first is the standard confrontation approach of people giving an update on what was coming for them in the previous period, in terms of their path. The second is the distribution of a piece in advance for reflection. We will continue in this vein for the time being, using either a general update or a piece for reflection shared in advance. ~ Contact for information.
In addition to the Wednesday meetings, – The first and third Sundays of the month we combine with Dan G’s bookclub online meetings via Zoom which run from 7pm to 9pm GMT. Irish time. – The Monday after the second Sunday of the month from 7pm to 9pm we have in-person meetings, currently at the Dominican Retreat centre in Tallaght. These are held monthly. and we base these meetings on the question from the previous month’s reader commentary question, which gives folks plenty to talk about on the night, taking inspiration and irritation from material in the TAT Forum. – The fourth Sunday of the month we hold a joint online meeting with the Pittsburgh Self Inquiry group via Zoom. These meetings generally are based on the “Founder’s Wisdom” section from the previous month’s TAT Forum. ~ Contactfor more information.
Update from the email self-inquiry groups: The Women’s Online Confrontation (WOC) group consists of weekly reports where participants can include: > What is on your mind? > Any projects that you want to be held accountable for? > Responses to a selected excerpt (in the previous report). > Comments/responses/questions for other participants. A philosophical/spiritual excerpt with two or three questions is included in each report. Based on what we share, participants ask questions to help get clarity about our thinking. The intention is to help each other see our underlying beliefs about who we are. One rule we try to adhere to is not to give advice or solve problems. The number of participants, to make it work efficiently, is between 4 and 7 including the leader. We continue to have two men’s email groups active. Since the beginning of the year, four participants have left and one other participant has returned. The weekly reports function like slow-motion self-inquiry confrontation meetings, which has its pros and cons. We alternate by asking each other questions one week then answering them the following week. Participants provide brief updates of highlights from the previous week and optional updates on progress toward objectives that they use the reports for accountability on. Both the women’s and the men’s email groups welcome serious participants. ~ Contact or for more information.
Update from the Gainesville, FL self-inquiry group: We continue to meet at the Alachua County main library on Saturdays from 2 to 4 PM. We typically schedule meetings for alternate Saturdays with an occasional extra week between meetings due to holidays or the TAT meeting schedule and our group’s associated retreats. We talk with newcomers about the objective of the group as a forum to stimulate the progress of self-inquirers, we ask them what their most heartfelt life-objective is, and then we usually listen to each volunteer who wants to talk and then be questioned about what they’ve said. ~ Email or for more information.
Update from the GMT Support Group for Seekers: We meet every Sunday gmt 18.30, live on Google Meet. Rapport and confrontation, talk and exchange. Someone mostly brings a theme, like a text, poem or whatever to set the mood. Then 10 minutes of silent rapport after which everyone gets their turn on the “hot seat” for 10-15 minutes—the group listens to what the person has to say about the theme then asks friendly questions—depending on how many participants we are. The questioning is aimed at providing material for self-inquiry. There have been sessions in which we just chatted, but that is more the exception. ~ Contact.
Update from the Greensburg, PA self-inquiry group: My Greensburg SIG group is currently in hiatus. I would like to have meetings in person again sometime in the future. But in the meantime, if you have any inquiries, or have an interest in helping me set up local meetings to meet again in person, you can email me at.
An update from the self-inquiry group in Houston, TX: We have merged our Zoom meetings with the Monday Night Confrontation group, which meets at 7:30 pm EST / 6:30 pm CST. ~ Contact for more information.
“Ignoramuses Anonymous” blog Ignoramuses Anonymous is for seekers to explore questions together…a fellowship of seekers for whom ignorance of the absolute truth had become a major problem. It started as a blog for Pittsburgh PSI meeting members back in 2009. Welcoming discussion on the path.
Ig Anon looks inactive again. The idea is to have a kind of seeker’s blog to process our thinking out loud and hopefully also help seekers new to group work see what we’re thinking about and if it resonates. My feeling is shorter posts in a range of 100-300 words are easier to put together and probably to read than recent 1000-word posts; however, there are no rules about it. WordPress.com free tier is starting to look like Times Square with all its ads. I think the blog needs to be hosted somewhere to really restart it, and will try first at Firstknowthyself.org. Once it’s moved, then it would be great to see if it can be useful again! See this post from a Four-day isolation retreat at TAT Center, with photos and YouTube clips.
Update from the Lynchburg, VA self-inquiry group: We have been meeting on Thursday evenings from 7pm—8:30pm, online, via zoom. Norio Kushi, Paul Rezendes, and Bob Harwood are consistent guests. We’ve also had some other interesting characters show up from time to time. Topics come from readings or questions brought up by our members. These are sent out, along with the zoom invitation each week. Recently we posted some “considerations” for joining our group: ** Try to frame your comments as questions to Norio, Paul, or Bob. Draw these questions from you own experience rather than generalities. Maintain attention and discussion on the question rather than philosophical musings. ** Question other participants, in the spirit of group-assisted self inquiry, but without attempting to lead them to any particular conclusion or bring attention to yourself. **Allow for and attend to the silence and the space that is always present. When you aren’t speaking, see that as your role—to hold that space. **Question, in yourself, the use of personal story-telling and quoting others—though sometimes both are helpful and appropriate. **Consider the way in which you are listening. Does it have a quality of acquisitiveness or openness? **Continue to question your own intention for coming to this meeting and let that guide any comments/questions/discussion. ~ Please contact if you’re interested in being on the email list.
Update from the Monday Night Confrontation Group: The Monday Night Confrontation (MNC) online meeting is going strong with a core group of participants and room for a few more. Meetings are at 7:30 pm EST / 6:30 pm CST and use the Zoom video conference platform. The group practices confrontation/self-inquiry in a spirit of helpfulness with the goal of finding answers from within. If you are interested in joining or would like more information, email.
The New York City Self-Inquiry group meets by Zoom every Monday from 6-8 PM EST. You can use this link. Our format is inspired by Art Ticknor’s self-inquiry retreats, giving equal time for each person to answer a spiritual, philosophical, or personal “question of the week.” By asking questions, we practice being sincere and reminding one another about the great mysteries of life. <p A member of the NYC Self-Inquiry group has started a blog. The goal is to interview people about their beliefs about life, what they’ve learned, what they want to share, and what they think might be useful to others. Available at: https://interviewingmyfriends.blogspot.com/. ~ More details, as well as our weekly discussion topics, are available on our MeetUp page (first link above) and via email at.
Update for the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area self-inquiry:
We meet at the Chapel Hill Public Library on alternate Saturdays from 1:00 to 2:30 PM, in meeting room D. ~ Email with any questions.
Update from the Raleigh, NC Triangle Inquiry Group:
We continue to meet on the first and third Tuesday of the month via Zoom. We usually have four to eight participants and new members are welcome. Except for a brief hiatus, we’ve been meeting regularly since the late 1990’s. Our main focus is on looking at beliefs that can get us stuck in habitual ways of thinking which can limit the possibility of seeing the true nature of things. Although I act as a sort of MC in our meetings, there’s no teacher or group leader and we all try to help each other in the search for the Real. ~ Email for more details.
Update from the San Francisco Bay area self-inquiry group: See the Shawn Nevins interview by Iain McNay of Conscious.tv, kicking off the publication of Shawn’s book Subtraction: The Simple Math of Enlightenment. ~ Email for information about upcoming meetings and events.
Update from the Washington DC Area Self-Inquiry Discussion Group: [This group was previously listed as the Rockville, MD self-inquiry group.] We’ve been meeting monthly at Rockville, MD Memorial Library. While the library is closed for public health reasons, we’re participating more in a weekly online book club. Forum readers are welcome to participate. ~ For more information, please email or see the website http://firstknowthyself.org/virtual/.
Members-Only Area
A password-protected section of the website is available for TAT members. (Note that there’s an occasional glitch that, when you try to link to the members-only area or a sections within it, you’ll get a page-not-found error. If you try the link a second time, it should work.) Contents include:
How you can help TAT and fellow seekers,
11 NEW audio recordings of selected sessions from 2008-2023 in-person meetings and virtual gatherings,
Resources and ideas for those planning a group spiritual retreats,
Photographs of TAT meeting facilities, the Richard Rose grave site, a rare 1979 photo, and aerial photos of the Rose farm,
Presenters’ talk notes from April TAT meetings in 2005–2007, and
TAT News Letters from 1996–2013 and Annual Retrospectives from 1973 thru 2011. The Retrospectives from 1973–1985 were written by Richard Rose and are replete with ideas on the workings of a spiritual group—rich historical content.
TAT policies, TAT business meeting notes, and other information.
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Downloadable/rental versions of the Mister Rose video and of April TAT talks Remembering Your True Desire:
“You don’t know anything until you know Everything….”
Mister Rose is an intimate look at a West Virginia native many people called a Zen Master because of the depth of his wisdom and the spiritual system he conveyed to his students. Profound and profane, Richard Rose was not the kind of man most people picture when they think of mystics or spiritual teachers. Yet, he was the truest of teachers, one who had “been there,” one who had the cataclysmic experience of spiritual enlightenment.
Filmed in the spring of 1991, the extraordinary documentary follows Mr. Rose from a radio interview, to a university lecture and back to his farm, as he talks about his experience, his philosophy and the details of his life.
Whether you find him charming or offensive, fatherly or fearsome, you will not forget him, and never again will you think about yourself, reality, or life after death in quite the same way.
2012 April TAT Meeting – Remembering Your True Desire
Includes all the speakers from the April 2012 TAT meeting: Art Ticknor, Bob Fergeson, Shawn Nevins and Heather Saunders.
1) Remembering Your True Desire … and Acting on It, by Art Ticknor Spiritual action is like diving for the Pearl beyond Price. What do you do when you don’t know what to do or how to do it? An informal discussion centered around the question: “What prevents effective spiritual action?”
2) Swimming in the Inner Ocean: Trips to the Beach, by Bob Fergeson A discussion of the varied ways we can use in order to hear the voice of our inner ocean, the heart of our true desires.
3) A Wider and Wilder Vision, by Shawn Nevins Notes on assumptions, beliefs, and perspectives that bind and free us.
4) Make Your Whole Life a Prayer, by Heather Saunders An intriguing look into a feeling-oriented approach to life.
TAT founder Richard Rose believed that working with others accelerates our retreat from untruth. He also felt that such efforts were most effective when applied with discernment, meaning working with others on the rungs of the ladder closest to our own. The TAT News section is for TAT members to communicate about work they’ve been doing with or for other members and friends. Please your “ladder work” news.
Humor {(h)yo͞omər}
“One thing you must be able to do in the midst of any experience is laugh. And experience should show you that it isn’t real, that it’s a movie. Life doesn’t take you seriously, so why take it seriously.” ~ Richard Rose, Carillon
There once was a monastery that was very strict. Following a vow of silence, no one was allowed to speak at all. But there was one exception to this rule. Every ten years, the monks were permitted to speak just two words. After spending his first ten years at the monastery, one monk went to the head monk. “It has been ten years,” said the head monk. “What are the two words you would like to speak?”
Ten years later, the monk returned to the head monk’s office. “It has been ten more years,” said the head monk. “What are the two words you would like to speak?”
“Food… stinks…” said the monk.
“I see,” replied the head monk.
Yet another ten years passed and the monk once again met with the head monk who asked, “What are your two words now, after these ten years?”
“I… quit!” said the monk.
“Well, I can see why,” replied the head monk. “All you ever do is complain.”
*
~ Thanks to John Suler’s Zen Stories to Tell Your Neighbors, who comments: “This story is a favorite in many western monasteries. It may or may not be an original Zen tale. Like any good anecdote, it makes us laugh, but also encourages us to think about why it is funny.” Image by 🆓 Use at your Ease 👌🏼 from Pixabay.
No Self
The call to admit resentment(s).
“Many are called, few are chosen.”
The truth detector’s reaction to an unperfected intuition.
Irritation moves us; inspiration provides a direction
About the Rainbow Connection
Some observations by the co-writer of the “Rainbow Connection” from the 1979 film The Muppet Movie, with music and lyrics written by Paul Williams and Kenneth Ascher, which we featured in last month’s TAT Forum:
“The Rainbow Connection” is, in the words of its co-writer Paul Williams, Kermit the Frog’s “I Am” song….
“I just keep expecting the best and things keep happening. That song is a perfect example. There was so much unintended information. As we were writing it, I’m not sure we were thinking any of these things on that kind of level…. We weren’t thinking consciously about any of that. It’s only now that I see that’s what we did. Later on you can take credit for some of the stuff that’s just handed to you by your higher self or the Big Amigo or the muse or whatever you believe in.”
The same songwriter wrote another song with these lyrics: “Telling the truth can be dangerous business. Honest and popular don’t go hand in hand.”
Way of Thinking by Richard Feynman | The Cosmological Reality
“I expect that what goes on in every man’s head might be very, very different.”
“I think nature’s imagination is so much greater than man’s she’s never going to let us relax.”
1. What did you find?
A vast range of things, from everything being just where it is happening as it does and knowing itself intrinsically, to deep states and stages across a wide range from horrible to weird to amazing, a vast range of strange energetic effects, healings, some traumatic stuff as well, amazing teachers who were often all too human yet somehow reassuring in that ordinariness and imperfection, tons of theory both helpful and confusing, a vast range of orthodoxies and sects to promote and argue about those orthodoxies, an internet full of opportunity and toxicity, earnest friends and co-journeyers as well as dedicated “worthy opponents” and detractors, the Eight Worldly Winds — pain and pleasure, gain and loss, fame and ill repute, praise and blame; magical powers both remarkable and disappointing, amazingly compassionate and saintly people helping to support the process, as well as power-trippy psychopaths wanting to own, control, exploit, and do other really unfortunate things to the institutions and seekers on the path, and lots of people who were some mix of those elements to various degrees; shadow sides, shadow sides to shadow sides, light, space, amazement, grief, peace, suffering, humanity, projection, transference, countertransference, deep and often apparently contradictory philosophy, and ultimately the soteriological effects that were, if nothing else, realistic, if not always exactly conforming to my ideals, appreciations of broader perspectives, meta-perspectives, and meta-meta-perspectives; and, perhaps just as important as any of the rest, various ethical considerations, systems, and practices. Of note, the answers I am giving in these small boxes are superficial and understandably limited, so please take all of them in that light. For more, please see https://mctb.org and the numerous other sources it references from a wide range of traditions.
2. What is your general advice to seekers?
Keep your wits about you. See for yourself. Seek ethical and wise companions and teachers as the first priority. Know and learn not only where the metaphorical accelerator pedal is, but also the steering wheel, brakes (regular and emergency) and when to step from the burning car and run. If you are in a map-based tradition, work to cultivate a mature relationship to them. If you are not in a map-based tradition, consider that there are maps out there that sometimes are normalizing and explanatory, as well as skillfully prescriptive, but also may have a steep learning curve, and can cause competition and comparison and judgement and all of that, so see the previous point. This moment, however sometimes unappealing, must somehow be both the basis of the path and its result. This body, mind, and heart contain many answers if you can learn to perceive them clearly and go through the organic process. The journey is very unlikely to be linear or all pleasant and upward. All traditions contain some wisdom and some shadow sides, and may be better fits at some times and for some people than others. Higher dose practice generally produces more rewards but also more potential risks, so consider the proper dose, and titrate and modify based on current circumstances, goals, logistical, functional and social realities and obligations, and risk tolerances.
3. Answer any or all of the following that you feel are relevant. What are your thoughts/feelings about:
a) Abiding and non-abiding awakening (i.e., knowledge of the Self/Truth vs. abiding as the Self/Truth)
While there are reports of exceptions, for most, glimpses and hints and parts of the solution and realization will arise before there is some more established abiding in that, which may also be phrased as the process of falsely imputing separateness, stability, and knowledge to the sense of a center, doer, controller, subject, etc. may be seen through in pieces and parts until finally the process of limited identification and futile attempts at stabilization, generally layer by layer, stops.
b) Are “Who (or what are you), whence (where did you come from), and whither (where are you going)?” fundamental questions for a seeker?
They certainly may be very useful for some, often if this curiosity is coupled with cultivated enhancements to attention, acceptance, and perception, and some support to the views that might increase the likelihood of such inquiry being salutary.
c) Bliss
Bliss is of many varieties, some positive, meaning due to the presence of something, such as bliss, or related feelings and qualities such as gratitude, peace, tranquility, stability, acceptance, openness, focus, wisdom, health, etc. Bliss may also be negative, meaning due to the absence of something, such as the absence of identification, contraction, adversity, disturbance, craving, ignorance, sickness, pain, etc.
Bliss of the positive variety is always conditional, meaning transient, and relating skillfully to this transience is important. Bliss may also be an object of investigation, as with any other object.
Bliss also may, in the very special case of the type related to the stopping of the processes of identification that are comprised in the term “ignorance”, apply to all things, in that very specific way, and not precluding any particular arising of specifics. Regarding myself, I am a bit of an aversive type, so bliss doesn’t hold my attention as well as it holds the attention of some. This is a mixed blessing, but it did make bliss easier to investigate and break into component parts and gain insights from.
d) Doing vs. not doing
Doing and not doing are impressions that arise naturally, owing to the conditioning of the universe, often called karma or causality or dependent arising. They are meanings based on specific sensate qualities. Sometimes, the feeling of control, doing, action, agency is arising. Sometimes the feeling of non-control, inevitability, non-negotiability, passivity, and agencylessness is arising. Sometimes there may be a paradoxical mix of these. In a few, there is the deep, abiding understanding, “Doing and not doing are simply two categories of related qualities that arise naturally sometimes and imply no separate, stable, localized doer anywhere.” Investigating the naturally arising stream of intentions that precede actions may reveal this sort of wisdom, as may other types of practices.
It is described above in various ways, and, while there is controversy around these sorts of definitions and criteria, as well as the language around this, I tend to prefer the definition include somehow notions of natural arising, things perceiving themselves where they are, all thoughts of present and past and now being clearly perceived naturally as transiently occurring now, no sense of a true and stable “center, doer, controller, be-er, perceiver, knower, agent,” to be found in any transient experience as one’s baseline without exception, the process of creating such a set of impressions or root existential interpretations having stopped entirely. If often is reported and experienced to progress in stages, layers, and quantum shifts, but not always. It is easy to mistake many transient highs, openings, formless experiences, unitive experiences, void experiences, unknowing experiences, equanimous experiences, blissful experiences, and magical experiences as being an abiding awakening. I tend towards a rough perennialism regarding awakening, with some elements that are nearly universal, and some that do seem to have individual variation in the particulars.
f) Hypnosis (influencing another person mind-to-mind)
Hypnosis is a potentially powerful modality that one can use both related to others and also on oneself. Clearly, some are more susceptible or amenable than others, and this trait of it working on one appears to be something one can cultivate. Ethics are extremely powerful here, and its misuse is common in spiritual circles (as well as in politics, advertising, etc.). Variants of hypnotic inductions and techniques are often used in spiritual talks, and some teachers, such as Dan Brown, were explicitly doing this to help point people towards realization. Strong debates exist about the degree to which hypnotic pointings towards wisdom or deep states are equivalent to “real pointings”, and how to even sort out this question is not easy. If done skillfully, hypnosis can produce deep shifts, healing, revelations, journeys, insights, and psychological benefits, as well as physical ones. If done poorly, a vast range of damage may be done. For some, it seems to do little, and they appear nearly congenitally immune to its effects. In subtle forms, it pervades spiritual messages and likely has memetic and mythic impact broadly across the globe in ways often underappreciated. I personally have appreciated a range of techniques that involve hypnotic elements, and, in fact, view all meditation as involving elements essentially indistinguishable from elements you find within the hypnotic practice traditions. For magic, using hypnotic priming is extremely powerful, and care and ethics must be used in this regard to attempt to optimize good outcomes.
g) Identity
Identity is a complex question with many layers and aspects, including, but not limited to: existential, psychological (often containing multitudes, as in Internal Family Systems), social (roles, jobs, family, community, etc.), physical, emotional, perceptual, ontological, epistemic, and “spiritual”. Spiritual practices may add, subtract, and modify our senses of identity — as seekers, True Self, no-self, teachers, successes, failures, members of a tribe or sect, knowers, as having existed across many lives or not exist at all, as being divine or void, as being transient or eternal, as being energy, 5D, incarnated aliens, love, Cosmic Consciousness, etc. Projections, Transference, and Countertransference arising from interactions with community members, other sects, teachers, students, the internet, the public, and the like may produce very complex identity effects. Fundamental perceptual shifts of a wide variety may be created by various practices and modalities, including powerful dissociations, powerful identifications, powerful disentanglings, powerful tanglings, many others. The mixed benefits and harms of these shifts may vary widely across various practitioners and time-scales and settings. It is rare to engage deeply in spiritual practices and modalities without having numerous “life lessons” related to the many forms of identity. Disorientation for some periods of time is common both in ourselves and those around us as identities of various types shift and morph on the path.
h) Individual consciousness of awareness
Clearly, from some very ordinary functional points of view, the notion of there being an “individual consciousness of awareness” is an ontological, perceptual, clinical, and ordinary lens that has many uses, being most of the default way that the situation with people is described and operationalized in both discourse and the ordinary business of our lives. That some may have also added perceptual shifts that “see through” this process in varying degrees of depth and apparent permanence doesn’t negate the first key point. Still, this should not in any way negate the counterpoint, that being that seeing through some sense that consciousness is individual, seeing deeply that everything seems to be aware of itself where it is, isn’t also very important, and some version of this is very understandably included in many to most descriptions and reports of awakening, realization, or however it is phrased. Simply perceiving experience right now clearly enough can begin to show the paradoxes related to the sense of individuality as well as something in the apparent pervasiveness of “awareness”, as well as the curious thing that “consciousness” seems to be and seems not to be and how this may relate to the typically initially perceived separate something that “awareness” might be, and exploring these is rightly often reported to be a key to understanding and wisdom.
i) Meditation
Meditation has a vast range of meanings and definitions, as well as functional techniques and real-world operationalizations. It is practiced with so many differing focuses, styles, doses, and settings and with so many varied conceptual underpinnings and stated and implied goals as to be a topic as wide as saying something like “Religion” or “Culture”. Narrowing it down, and related to my own path, I have found meditation very helpful, generally, though producing a wide variety of effects, many of which were not pleasant in the short to medium term, but, ultimately, was profoundly empowering, revelatory, and transformative, though not always in the exact ways described by orthodoxy, though sometimes very much so. I have followed a variety of styles and traditions, from those designed to produce deep states of bliss, peace, and even formless experiences, as well as loving-kindness, caring, compassion, empathy, equanimity, and a wide range of elemental, colorful, archetypal, healing, and magical experiences. However, my primary path was one of insight practices, often heavily influenced by various strains of vipassana, often heavily influenced by the Theravada Commentaries and the Pali Canon, particularly the Abhidhamma, and often with a modern Burmese twist.
j) No-self
That there is no stable, separate, abiding, knowing, doing, controlling, be-ing self at the center of experience, and realizing this in a way that totally stops the process of the brain desperately trying to create such a thing from transient, natural sensations that arise and vanish on their own — this was, for me, the key point, and the most important benefit of the path. I recognize that there are various risks, benefits, and alternatives to the language of no-self, and some, at times, might benefit from other sorts of language, such as True Self, Soul, Divine Self, etc. I consider all such linguistic maneuvers potentially valuable in various contexts, depending on desired outcomes, functional considerations, and cultural resonances.
Summarizing, and losing much in the summary: first one must be very careful about what one means by “thought”: Inner voice? Intentions to perform actions? Mental impressions? Ability to dream? Ability to anticipate? Ability to remember? Ability to reason? Ability to visualize? Ability to conceptualize? Mental noise? Primarily being consciousness through one’s mental impressions and concepts vs by direct experience? Self-referential narrative?
While it is often reported, and I have found myself, that the proportion of experience taken up by thought may, on average, diminish sometimes (dreams being an obvious exception), and that thoughts may be perceived not only for their meanings but also as subtle experiences of sounds, sights, physical stuff, etc., and that thus the proportion of experience that is made up by thought may radically diminish as the Default Mode Network is reconfigured to prefer being “in the room” rather than “lost in thought”, and that the basic experience may become vastly more quiet, and that the vast majority of experience may be perceived vastly more directly vastly more of the time, still… I find ideas of “no-thought” as an ideal often produce massive shadow sides as people cultivate layers of delusion to fit the model and thus massive shadow sides rather than “waking up”. Having had the good fortune to talk and correspond with some people who claim to have “no thoughts”, I can confidently state that they do, in fact, “think”, even if they think they don’t. 😉
l) Rapport (contacting another person mind-to-mind)
Yeah, this is something that can happen sometimes, and some are more skilled at contacting others, and some are more skilled at being contacted, and some are more skilled at both. Like all of the powers, the signal and reliability are generally glitchy and should be taken with appropriate grains of salt. Ethics, as always, is a key consideration. Given that mind-to-mind connections probably happen at least at some subtle level with each and every interaction, ethics thus should always be maintained as a key goal and practice, even if we don’t believe some more dramatic mind-to-mind something is happening.
The range of effects that can happen during what you call “rapport” is vast, and basically everything you have ever heard described and probably more. Clearly, there is some positive correlation between more meditation dose and rapport, as well as intending to have it happen and it happening, as well as the dose of other things, such as psychedelics, powerful rituals, and the like. Priming is also clearly positively correlated as well, as are other hypnotic techniques.
m) Reality
I personally am an ontologically agnostic Empirical empirical pragmatist, meaning that I hold ontological frame of “what is reality” loosely, checking in my personal experience (Empirical, in the David Hume sense) that reproducibly (empirical in the scientific sense of experiment) an adopted ontological frame will pragmatically be of some utility. We all do this to some degree, shifting from various frames, mathematical, psychological, social, experiential, etc., depending on our situation and goals, but I go out of my way to do this a bit more formally sometimes. For insight meditation, I have found an immediate sensate frame useful. For magical practices, I find magical frames often useful, though not always. For stopping magical effects, I find Materialist frames useful, as I do for some clinical situations, but not all. For clinical situations, a mix of social, biological, and experiential frames often worked well. For business, I like a good spreadsheet taken with a high dose of skepticism of the numbers that go into it. For human relationships, a vast range of frames are useful, from various psychological, energetic, ethical, and archetypal to many others. So, as to the question of “reality”, well, that depends.
n) Self-Realization (peeling away fabricated layers of one’s own personality to understand the true self and hence the true nature of reality)
I think it is a good idea, though as to whether nor not I would frame it as “self-realization” or no-self, or whatever, see above.
o) Silence
Times of silence are clearly beneficial sometimes from a practice, meditative point of view. As to an experience, silence is a designation of a particular set of sensate qualities. There are a wide variety of silences, as pointed out by authors such as Patrick Rothfuss and many others — the silences of absence, the silences of anticipation, the silences in conversation, the silences of intentionally secluding the mind from sound, the silences of distraction and inattention (such as when we don’t hear someone say something directly to us as we are lost in thought), the deep silences found in deep states of meditation, etc. Silence may be relative or absolute. Silence may be pathological, as in deafness from illness or ear damage, or extremely valuable for getting work done, as in from noise-cancelling headphones. I attribute no particularly ontological statue or hierarchical value to silence necessarily, but have, at times, valued some of the silences mentioned above greatly.
p) Tension
Tension has a wide range of meanings, including, but not limited to: social, physical, structural, ontological, philosophical, etc. Tension can be useful signal, but often implies something negative, as in “that rope is too tense and it might break”, or “you are gripping this too tightly”, or “your neck muscles are too tense”, or “that meeting sure felt tense”. Tension can be an indication of both pathology (“their abdominal muscles were so tense that I wonder if they have intraabdominal trauma”) or valuable (“the tension on that guitar string is just right, sounds great”). There can be tension in the body during meditation that might be an indication of an opportunity for growth through investigation or just poor posture that might be good to listen to in order to avoid hurting oneself. There can be tension between students and teachers, between various sects, between ideals and reality, and these may be dynamic or somewhat static, as well as lead to mixes of growth and discord, problems and possibilities. We may have tensions within ourselves, often during the process by which decisions occur. Lots to say about tensions beyond this, and exploring where one might go might be interpreted as a Rorschach test of the explorer. From a meditative point of view, I have benefitted from the tension exploration techniques of Robert Harry Hover as articulated in the book Internal Moving Healing, and influenced by Sayagyi U Ba Khin, as well as a variety of bodywork modalities, yoga, vipassana, and many others.
q) Transmission
Transmission, presuming in this case you mean the spiritual/energetic variety and not those found in automobiles, for example, is definitely a thing, reported across cultures, times, and settings. I have been on both ends of it, sometimes dramatically. Some people are good at transmitting, with some able to do this with curiously high rates of reliability, and others transmit sporadically or rarely, with little sense of dependability or control. Others are good at receiving, being transmitted to, and various settings, frame, preparations, rituals, contexts, mythic resonances, primings, and the like clearly appear to correlate with receiving transmissions being more likely. Transmissions may have a range of predominant and lesser aspects of what is transmitted and what is received, including feelings, energy, information, wisdom, perceptions, healings, and influence. Transmissions may work in both directions, and, I believe, nearly always do to some degree. Transmissions may be energy draining or amplifying for one or both parties. Transmissions may not always be entirely beneficial, and, in fact, some may be profoundly detrimental, either accidentally or intentionally. Transmissions can be profoundly connecting, yet may also cause powerful social instabilities, and these effects may vary depending on time-scale — short, medium, long, etc. Some transmissions strike like lightening, others may be very subtle, and the intensity may also vary in the short, medium, and long-term, with some transmissions not being obvious until months, years, or even decades later. Mass group transmissions can occur as well, with large collective effects, and many human gatherings contain elements of transmission of some sort. Transmissions are often also initiations. Transmission is a very complex topic that I have just scratched the surface of here. Again, the intentional practice and aspiration to ethics around transmission is vital, realizing that transmission often also involves shadow sides being a part of the mix even if we try to pretend otherwise.
r) Truth
Lots of ways to conceptualize and discourse on “truth” obviously. I will begin simply, with ethics, and the notion that truth in speech is very often a good thing to aspire to and practice, with the question of what and in what context exceptions are the more ethical option being a life-long koan, at least for me. So, as a precept, as part of the 5, 8, 10, or 227/311+ precepts in the tradition I have most often practiced in, Right Speech is a valuable practice to undertake. “Truth” may also be deeper, regarding how we view and interpret the world, and you should see my discussion of ontologically agnostic Empirical empirical pragmatism above. One meaning of “Dharma” or “dhamma” is “truth”: truths of this momentary experience, truths that help us better understand this experience, truths that might help reduce suffering and increase wisdom and wellbeing, depending on the epistemic and temporal frame. Questions of universal Truths and their relationship to individual truths are often a key part of explorations on the spiritual path, at least so I found on my own path. On the other hand, there are moments when skillful or instinctual denial of various truths might have a temporary practical benefit, such as in cases of shock and immediate trauma, or continuing on living happy lives in the face of things like Climate Change, etc. It might be true that focusing too hard on various truths might not always lead to the best outcomes across various timescales and in various settings. Still, obviously, the Quest for Truth drives many a practitioner, and certainly drove and drives me often enough. These days, the truths I find most interesting to chase are mostly large, philanthropic ones, questions such as, “How to effectively scale knowledge of the deep end of human experience to the global clinical, mental health, public health, and public mainstreams to promote better outcomes for those on and around the path?”
s) What can we know for sure: What we are? What we aren’t? Other?
Again, see above with regard to my strict ontological frame, which does contain one key element relevant here, that of Empiricism, in the David Hume sense, in the strict immediate experience sense, that experiences occur: this does seem a sound basis from which to be begin, at least, and hard to imagine others, once we realize that thoughts and extrapolations are also experiences in that immediate Empirical frame.
t) What is your certainty based on?
See above.
u) What prevents a seeker from knowing the truth?
The answers to this question are clearly “many uncountable causes”, and, from a certain point of view, the question is sort of like asking, “Why is there experience?” However, bringing it back down from that vast uncertainty, and speaking in practical but reductive generalities, common categories of reasons may include: 1) a lack of sufficiently clear perception of the numerous sensations that appear to constitute experience, thoughts, intentions, mental impressions, memories, anticipations, emotions, states of mind, the body, sounds, tastes, smells, sights, etc. 2) the notion that truth is found in an imagine future rather than this immediate changing present, 3) that truth involves a stable experience rather than giving up the existential, interpretive, and perceptual habit of creating a sense of separate, knowing, controlling central stability, 4) numerous Maslowvian hindrances that cause understandable preoccupations with things like securing food, shelter, safety, a healthy relationship or relationships, physical health, basic psychological health, healing from trauma, dealing with war, poverty, oppression, lack of access to information and the freedom to practice, etc. 5) poor instructions and models that take the seeker more away from their actual lived experience than towards it, 6) poor interpretations of good instructions and models in that same away direction, 7) poor fits between the seeker and the instructions and models, which may be good, but not good for that person at that time, 8) there are probably genetic and epigenetic factors we don’t understand very well yet related to perception, 9) the perennial drives for control, stability, safety, and bliss in a universe of sensations that unfolds naturally, transiently, and which involves pain, suffering, illness, conflict, disappointment, grief, loss, and death, 10) the countless temptations and distractions of the world that may promise salvation but which may mostly deliver cost, addiction, distraction, ill health, biosphere degradation, or craving for only fleeting reprieve, 11) a lack of sufficient intensity of one of the “roads to power”, such as curiosity, compassion, aspiration, kindness, ethical motivation, or suffering sufficient to create necessity, 12) fellow travelers on the path that have settled for lesser truths and may counsel that others do the same, 13) having been born in a place, time, and circumstance not conducive to practice and wisdom, 14) countless other factors that are hard to fathom.
v) “You are aware prior to birth and aware after you die, so you begin with awareness, but you are not conscious of awareness.” ~ Richard Rose, The Direct-Mind Experience
Interesting quote and a complex set of ontological and existential ideas that might be of varying degrees of value to various seekers at various places on various paths. Making this personal for just a bit, and using that frame to illustrate more general points: having had nearly “all” of the various ontologically compelling experiences — oneness, voidness, non-duality, rebirth and past lives, all is pure energy, there is nothing that is reborn, there is only this moment, I have existed since the Dawn of Time, thousands of lifetimes ago I was a divine time-perceiving being that could see through countless possible permutations of the Multiverse, traveling out of body, perceiving AWARENESS as a stable and eternal space in which all arise, perceiving that same sense of “eternal AWARENESS” to flicker and vanish utterly, etc. — and having had those with the super-potent sense of noesis, of knowing, of absolute certainty, at some point, I began to notice, “Ah, various absolutely compelling experiences that appear to answer the deepest questions of meaning, identity, Truth, Ultimate Reality, Emptiness, and the like. Had I just one, or just a few that clustered together in a close web of meaning, I, like so many others, would certainly be conditioned to hold views along these lines. However, having had so many ultra-compelling meanings arise that are yet so utterly contradictory, mutually entirely incompatible, irresolvable within a coherent ontological frame, better to not cling to any of those, and make one’s way in the world of meaning based on what seems to promote good outcomes rather than based on transient experiences, however compelling, but with sympathy and understanding for those who do otherwise, as such is their conditioning, just as you have your conditioning.”
w) Other comments:
Interesting exercise. May it be of some use to someone. Best wishes! 🙏🙂
The Art of Being Alone: Lessons from Famous Philosophers
Covers Kierkegaard’s ideas on solitude from minutes 5:30 to 8:40:
“The idea of disconnecting of being alone with nothing but our thoughts for company seems foreign even frightening.”
“Solitude, for Kierkegaard, was a crucial ingredient in the process of self-discovery and self-understanding…. In solitude one could confront the existential anxieties and despair that often accompany the journey towards becoming a true self…. The more one isolates oneself the closer one comes to oneself.”
Please your thoughts on the above items.
Reader Commentary
Encouraging interactive readership among TAT members and friends
A reader wrote that what would make the Forum more interesting would be:
Hearing from people who are searching—and have questions instead of those providing endless advice and “answers.” What challenges they are facing. What their doubts and questions are. How they perceive their path is going. What they are doing in their lives. Where they think they will end up, etc., etc.
Can you help make the Forum more interesting?
The Reader Commentary set of questions for the May TAT Forum, thanks to Tina N:
Do you have clarity on what you really want out of life? If yes, what contributed to gaining clarity? If not, what are you doing to gain clarity?
Responses follow:
From Ricky C:
Yes. I want to become the truth of who I really am and be ground down by life until it removes all that I am not so that what’s left over can be known.
Slowing down. Facing myself by getting honest about what I want out of life. Tracking my behaviors, seeing objectively where I am and where I want to be. Going into nature where there is less judgement. Nature has it’s own pulse that is true to itself. I have that pulse too but it is interfered with by bad influences (and helped by good ones). Writing down the bad and also the good helped. Conserving my energy and allowing good energy in (not isolating myself from positive friendship and spiritual energies) also helps. Reviewing my past and seeing the patterns of negativity before going down into depression, then seeing a light and rising back up into more positive optimism…and seeing both of those patterns from a higher perspective objectively helps. Going through the pain, feeling and releasing the emotions that have been stuck. Letting go of shame and pride that prevents asking for help and praying. Praying for clarity and having intuitional insights.
Asking myself to see what I’m stuck on. Asking for words for it to make sense. Holding a feeling in mind and stewing on it until it becomes untangled and clear what it is about and where it is from or at least just letting it go and being free of it. Looking back at the feeling in dreams and the images or messages themselves. Dreams can be about me or someone else and they can be symbolic at the same time. Jungian psychology and shadow work to communicate with unhealed parts of myself and bring about integration of the many “I”s. Labeling the problem or problems I think I have. Sharing what is going on with others. Just trying different things to not be stuck. Getting experience and info and then recalibrating to where I want to go. Asking “Is it True?” Asking “What is different/What changed?” Letting go of assumptions and starting with base facts. Taking bare bones logic and following step by step. Leaps of faith where logic can’t go. Find out and know for yourself.
From Art Ticknor:
Yes, and I found/became it.
I saw with simple clarity what I really wanted from life during meditation one day. I’m guessing it was the result of intuitive processing that I hadn’t witnessed. I immediately began scanning the mind to see if there were any holdouts. When I didn’t find any, becoming what I really wanted automatically registered as my primary life-commitment. Surprisingly, I found that all my lesser desires and responsibilities then took care of themselves. I stuck with it, looking for it even after losing hope.
From Dan G:
Watching Basquiat, about 80’s Neo-expressionist artist Jean-Michel Basquiat highlighted three versions of life games. On the one hand, success gets him wealth and fame, lower aims on DeRopp’s list (https://www.selfdiscoveryportal.com/arMasterGame.htm). On the other hand, artistry can bring beauty into the world for others. In that sense, it might be a neutral game above householder, a Prometheus game of fetching something from the gods of higher value to redeem the world a little, to make the world a little brighter.
Art and science as a form of seeking, as communing with something higher, as saving oneself in something more deserving of glory, could be where the higher games start. Still, aiming at losing oneself in beauty would be to play seeking half-heartedly. Don’t forgetfulness and sleep cover all the beauty present right now? Awakening to those transcendent values always present, but I forget, offers a purer version of what I want in all those other life games and aims.
Is God real? Is God alive? Is divinity still present here today? To not miss that would be nice. To miss that is to be lost in hell. I want out of hell, to go back to where I came from, where I belong.
From Patrick K:
Someone once said with conviction that the only thing you can know for “sure” is “who you are”, and that feels true to me. So this is the fundamental koan, “who really am I?” I intuit that I can find that answer if I apply myself like a Richard Rose or a Franklin Merrell-Wolff, etc. What contributes mainly to me going in this direction is because all other life based directions will and do “engage the ego”. So if I don’t follow a spiritual path “primarily” (as life will automatically impose it’s own paths onto me and everyone else), I will forever be vibrating on lower levels of being. It’s all about direction, isn’t it? I struggle with those who say it is foolish to have a goal on the spiritual path. Without a goal, how can I have direction? Without direction, how do I know what is right or wrong for me?
When it comes to “clarity” about what you want from life, you need to use prime examples of outcomes for a human life, don’t you? Using polarisation from the depths of being a dunce to the heights of being a genius, becoming a Ted Bundy or a Nikola Tesla. Using polarisation of love/hate, becoming like Jesus or becoming like Hitler. Basically one path leads to hell and the other toward heaven, in the words of Jordan Peterson. Intelligence tells me that when I vibrate on the lower planes, I’m being stupid, something I’m doing is dragging me down, how am I co-creating my own hell?
Really all this points to the law of attraction: I will attract negativity into my life when I am moving in the wrong direction and attract positivity when moving in the right direction. This is how I clarify my direction. My work is to be able to set into motion some kind of vector in the direction of heaven, away from hell. I didn’t take a fancy one day to become enlightened, no, I am just trying to follow the most prudent path for me in this lifetime, which really I feel is to follow a spiritual path. And again, a real spiritual path for me is to find who/what exactly it is that I am. It just feels like basic common sense to me now.
The most recent thing I am trying to do is to study the full list of virtues outlined by Fr Chad Ripperger: Full List of Virtues – From Father Ripperger. Becoming virtuous is not like gaining “brownie points”, it is an effort to perfect my inner nature so as to vibrate on higher levels (I am using the vibration principle from the hermetic philosophy, taken from the book, The Kybalion. Virtues “already” exist in the human being, they are either on the negative side or the positive side. Becoming virtuous is not a trip toward vanity, but it can be, if done sinfully. You are either virtuous or you are sinful, that seems to be the fact of the matter. When I talk about sin here, it may not be the same as the obvious ones we are taught growing up. An example of a sin may be not doing physical exercise every day when I know it makes me feel better and more positive.
My intuition tells me that the above list of virtues would be a good document to consider, to try to uncover my “chief feature”. Was it Jim Burns who said that our psychology is held up at certain points? Gurdjieff would probably attest to our psychology being mainly held up around our “Chief Feature”, which to me represents that most glaring obstacle that is currently outside of my ability to see, somewhere my nature is resonating on the negative side. Maybe to view how I am operating in disharmony with Thy will (the 64 virtues) will help me to trace my way back to the unconscious feeling beliefs that keep playing the programmes of the false self.
Jim Burns said, “The unconscious is suppressed conscious capability”. By unlocking the unconscious, you are speeding up your mental computer, freeing it up for better/higher goals. Become obsessed with insight and keep at it. The hope is that when all the supporting faulty feeling beliefs have been “seen”, then that makes the way for the keystone in the arch of faulty beliefs to come toppling down. Some have mentioned that this keystone belief is the belief in being a separate self and once seen, you have found your real home, the home that paradoxically you have never left, so here’s hoping. This is my path, it may and most likely does have glitches and suffers neglect of application toward it, but at least something is compelling me to keep at it, to keep trying.
From Tess Hughes:
This is a great question, and one I believe gave me the idea that one could have clarity about one’s life. It was TAT that introduced me to such questions.
It’s right at the core of self-inquiry. It prompted me to take stock or review of what had led me to that point in my life. This prompted me to clarify what really really mattered to me. Having clarified that set the direction and determination for what followed.
From Brad Stephan:
What I really want out of life is peace. Advaitic literature is what contributed to this clarity.
From Andrew S:
I really don’t think I have much clarity on what I want out of life. There are times when I think I have a handle on that question but then life happens and my mood and expectations change.
It does seem like we were put here to “get” something out of life and possibly part of the journey is figuring out what that is. My issue with this is the simple fact that I didn’t ask for life and therefore I never asked for this responsibility. I was born, I exist, and through life I have been able to realize something is wrong. Either with me or with the world or both but ya something isn’t right and so I guess I feel like what I’m supposed to get out of life is figuring out what isn’t right. I wouldn’t say that’s what I want to get out of life though because like I said above I never asked for this responsibility.
I wouldn’t say I’m doing a whole lot to specifically gain clarity. I do try to pay attention to my thoughts and feelings especially ones that come up often. I could talk a lot more about the things I have learned I don’t need out of life and I’m sure I’ll have more to add to that list as the years go by. I think by living life and continuing to make mistakes I may slowly, very slowly be moving towards realizing what I really want out of life but I’m not there yet.
From Anima Pundeer:
Yes. The very nature of life is its impermanence. No two moments are ever the same. So, my wants from life are also constantly changing. What I wanted was to transcend all my wants.
Disillusionment from what I thought would bring satisfaction — realizing that the wants are never-ending. Self-honesty about what I desire brings clarity.
From Lena S:
I do have a desire, but undefined so far, I dare say maybe a love. In the absence of all else, maybe via negativa, it is still there. A wanting, a desire, yearning, a direction, a pulling, an attraction, like an invitation. When all else is quiet, it is still there. Like a magnetic North, it can not be recognized, yet seems to be always present, an unseen pull throughout all else, yet never graspable, yet still there. It has its distractors; life provides all its own. But it waits, it is still there. Despite all mental gesticulations, personalities, dreams and identities inside, they are defied, because it permeates all, and is still there. It has its ups and downs; at times I feel like I could burst, as if there is something I should do, or somewhere I should go, or become or go through, as it has its own continuum I do not understand, but watch. If it is a guide, then I have not realized how to follow; if direction, I sense not where to face; if it is only love, then I know not yet how to love. It remains always there.
From lennys3cents:
Yes – I want nothing except to lose my mind.
Empty mind. Celibacy. Seeing that “i” am nothing but a collection of egos and that all is nothing more than interpretation of/by/through mind/consciousness — turning away, letting go, retreating from, rising above the place of reaction – poking holes in the penny.
Next Month
The Reader Commentary question for the June TAT Forum comes from Bob Cergol:
What are your questions?
Please your response by the 25th of May, and indicate your preferred identification (the default is your first name and the initial letter of your last name). “Anonymous” and pen names are fine, too.
PS: What question(s) would you like to ask other TAT Forum readers?
Q: What are your thoughts on this month’s reader commentary? Please your feedback.
Richard Rose described a spiritual path as living one’s life aimed at finding the meaning of that life. Did you find anything relevant to your life or search in this month’s TAT Forum?
Steps in Moundsville, WV. 2010 photo by Art Ticknor.
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Founder’s Wisdom
Richard Rose (1917-2005) established the TAT Foundation in 1973 to encourage people to work together on what he considered to be the “grand project” of spiritual work.
The Path to Truth
First Paper
In order to express my thoughts that others may understand and perhaps coordinate their thoughts, convictions and actions with my own, we must have a medium language, and this requires definition. Much of philosophy is simply definition of desires or intuitions.
As far as I can gather by my studies, the path to Truth has two meanings. The more objective or physical manner is in scientific research into things material and metaphysical. The Abstract method is in the development of the Inner Man.
Those persons who endorse the first or physical method of pursuing Truth or complete self-definition, are evidently convinced that it is possible for a person to KNOW. They feel that the great riddles of the cosmos and the invisible forces can be analyzed and their analyzation can be verbalized. This analytical approach has inspired scientists from Archimedes to Einstein. Men have tried in their manner to analyze, form laws of nature, and to determine the essence of matter and the essence behind matter by objective scrutiny. Their results are not to be minimized.
On the other hand there have been persons dedicated to the second or Abstract approach to a presumed abstraction. They more or less assume that man in his present robot-like body and mind can never perceive the Infinite. In fact it is often quoted by theologians that the finite mind will never understand the infinite. Their course of study, then is not to observe objectively with a finite mind, but to transform the mind to higher perception, or to develop attributes of higher specialty. In more simple words, to become the Truth. Some might say that it could be likened to seeing not with senses, but with our mind or inner being. To this group belong such figures as Jesus of Nazareth, various mystical saints, Buddha, Mohammed, devotees of yoga of the higher type, the exponents of Zen and the authors of such monumental writings as the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, and various Sutras.
There is indeed much criticism of persons who indicate an inclination to follow a path of inner development that tends to transcend mere church attendance and lip-service, yet none can really deny the fact that men such as Jesus and Buddha draw greater and more prolonged respect than the giants of the scientific fields.
To get back to categorizing. The Physical path or scientific approach to knowledge is in turn divided into two manners of pursuit, and these two in turn are the same, systematic analysis of tangibles or the material sciences, and a pretended systematic analysis of intangibles or philosophy and metaphysics. Again we have a physical and an un-physical category, and both are based on the conceit that we are able to KNOW.
In regards to the development of the Inner Man or the Abstract means or manner there are two methods again, the physical and the abstract. In the one sub-classification we have the problem approached by working on the physical body, and in the second sub-classification we have work on the mind, by working with intuition, meditation and the combination of qualities which we might preclude the mind to possess. To note roughly a few of the movements that prescribe work on the physical vehicle, we have hatha yoga, the many religions that advocate fasting, restraint of appetites, and body disciplines of severe nature even, and the religions that maintain that baptism or anointing precludes salvation. On the other side we have the same religions almost, for nearly all advocate meditation, the exercising of the will, or the control of the imagination. In other words the two-fold path is not alien to the conventional religious precepts.
… A spot on earth where people can do retreats and hold meetings; where the emphasis is on friendship and the search.
January 2024:
As we start the new year, December donations brought us to just over 20% of our 2023 fundraising goal of $15,750. The bulk of that total came from monthly, recurring donations. A big thank you goes to those core supporters who are there for TAT month in and month out, as well as all of you who choose monthly supporting memberships in TAT. These steady commitments are greatly appreciated and very helpful for TAT’s long-term planning.
An additional $152 came from Amazon purchases in 2024. This is a simple, no-cost way to support TAT but does require remembering to visit the TAT website first and use the Amazon link on this page before you put items in your cart: https://tatfoundation.org/support-tat/. Almost any product is eligible. For example, someone purchased toothpaste on Amazon, and TAT received $0.25 on that purchase.
In 2024, expect to see less frequent, but more effective, reminders of fundraising goals. I think these monthly reminders are a bit like that inspiring quote you put on the refrigerator—it works for a few days and then you don’t notice it anymore.
Thanks to all of you for making TAT the extraordinary organization it is, and best wishes for the new year.
Sincerely, Shawn Nevins
PS: Monthly contributions are a great way to support the TAT Center if making a larger one-time donation seems too much. If you’re so inspired, click the Donate button below, then check the box for “Make this a monthly donation” as in the example below:
Let’s bring this to life! “The job is upon us,” Richard Rose said, “and it is worthwhile.” To contribute to the TAT Center, mail a check made out to the TAT Foundation to:
TAT Foundation PO Box 3402 Roxboro, NC 27573
Big checks, little checks, all are welcome. Or use the PayPal link above (though we lose 2.2% of your donation to PayPal fees).
Did you enjoy the Forum? Then buy the book! Readers’ favorite selections from seven years of issues. Beyond Mind, Beyond Death is available at Amazon.com.