August 2025 TAT Forum

I started putting together this response by making a list of sets of pre-planned actions and a list of sets of unplanned but expected actions/habits. Then I took a wild swing at estimating the split between the average amount of my waking hours that go into each of those categories. It was 22% planned (i.e., strategic) and 78% unplanned but expected (semi-spontaneous?).

I seldom find myself doing anything other than more-of-the-same, and I don’t think of anything specific in the past year that was unplanned and unexpected (spontaneous?) which hasn’t resulted from someone else’s impetus. I’m a robot. 🙂

When I witnessed the thought-stream process in slow motion years ago, it was like watching a film through a scope. It included worded thoughts, images, sounds, and feelings, and was something like a pinball-machine operation, bouncing off memories, forming new combinations of them, forming if-then conclusions, and so on. It was also possible to look back to what started a particular stream, and it appeared that it was data coming into the view from two separate pipes or channels: one was data associated with the five physical senses; the other was from an unknown source.

I think all my mental actions are actually reactions to whatever data that the “the universe” provides. And I think that all my physical actions—other than processes we can blame on what the National Institute of Health describes as “involuntary physiologic processes including heart rate, blood pressure, respiration, digestion, and sexual arousal”—are reactions to mental processes. Although I feel that doing something spontaneously may be possible, I haven’t seen any evidence of it.

From Ben B:

A well-known military phrase says “No plan survives first contact with the enemy. “

And such is life.  Any strategy is guaranteed to change in the face of new perceptions and understanding, and so it should be.

The ‘future’ has never been anything like I’d imagined. 

Spontaneity requires no planning and little thought, if any … although prudence and past experience may play a part in not doing something foolhardy or rash.

A middle ground of allowing, of prudence and patience, may be a better place to rest; a place where sensation unfolds and a heartfelt knowing shows the way.  

No choices are required, they just happen.

A place where neither strategy nor spontaneity is necessary.

From Maria T:

Spontaneity seems to be an inborn part of our humanity as children develop spontaneous behaviours when quite young.  We learn to strategize or develop strategies as we journey our way through life. I found that due to my life experiences I became less spontaneous as I became older and more of a strategist to cope with life or simply deal with things that came up.  Good strategy is important because outcomes can make a difference.  I think George Gurdjieff was a master strategist as he traveled the world crossing borders, dealing with challenging situations and searching for Truth.  I still need to use strategy and keep learning as the outcomes I plan do not always happen…….this is especially true when dealing with people.  I have learned to look for the best outcome for all parties involved. The older I become the more I want to simply live as much as possible in spontaneous mode which feels like a feather on the wind blowing where the breeze might go.  No thought or planning required.  I also find that situations that used to require strategy now seem to already be sorted somewhere in the background there to be used when needed. 

From Michael R:

Well, I think it’s important to note that (from what I can see) the urge for and creation of a strategy comes spontaneously, as do whatever prior causes I might attribute to the decision to create a strategy. That disclaimer aside, strategy comes when simply following the whims of each moment gets me nowhere, seemingly. Strategy is a way to weather the various internal forces that push and pull me in different directions, aiming through the storm to a determined point that I believe “x” strategy will direct me towards. In a relative sense compared to strategy, spontaneity plays out when there’s no sense that one action is better than another for some desired outcome, or when there’s simply no desired outcome. In that state of mind, there’s an openness to whatever happens, so spontaneity naturally takes over.

From Anima Pundeer:

I have found that having a strategy works better than spontaneity. Especially if I am serious about a specific goal in my life. My personality is more ‘spontaneous’ than ‘have-a-plan’. I had the idea that being spontaneous meant being creative, being aligned with the mood of the universe, more fun. Thinking about a strategy felt boring, non-creative, analytical, too left-brained.

However, as a seeker of Truth, if one says they know what they are doing and have a plan to find Truth, in my opinion, they are deluding themselves. I wonder if God also knows the right steps to finding itSelf.

You come up with a strategy or what to do next through trial and error. And even then, you don’t know if it is helping or hindering. The only strategy I remember I had was what I could do to get myself out of the way.

In the end, it is your intention behind the action that brings the result.

Other Reader Feedback

From Bill R:

Is the use of Claude AI (or any AI) by Anonymous meant to show us how clever [the submitter] is, or is it just a means to avoid the challenge and effort of self-analytic/self-realization work?

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From Don A, regarding the video debate in last month’s Forum on whether there’s an end to the spiritual search:

In the July Forum, I watched the short video debate Is there an end to the spiritual search? among four “finder“ contestants. But as fascinating as it was, I had to wonder why this would be of any importance to me. They each claimed to have found a final solution to their inquiry, but disagreed as to whether there was still an unfolding or evolving taking place afterward, as to whether “enlightenment” was either a single or extended evolution of findings over time. If one side was correct, would that mean the other side was not?

A favourite article of mine is by Tyler M. in the Dec’23 Forum about addressing problems that otherwise are buried in our unconscious, and was reminded of it by his presence on the above debate panel. His article suggested a spiritual path could simply address the problems or crisis that lay deep in the unconscious whenever they might come to the surface—where, if one would only watch relentlessly until over time, they would simply dissolve. While watching the debate, as if by some unseen hand I was nudged to another recent event in memory as if some relevant connection was being suggested. It was something my young grandson had said to me only weeks earlier as we were travelling by car cross-country. I had obtained foldable paper road maps of each state we would travel through so he could learn geography and gain an overview of where we were located in the “greater scheme of things.” But I was dumbfounded by his remark: “Why would I need to know about everything else when all I need to know is about where I am right here?” As a riddle, I knew this was relevant, but I could not understand it. It seemed connected to other puzzles of opposition that perplex me, such as Richard Rose suggesting to “look under every rock,” whereas Ramana Maharshi states to focus on the “I am.” Another was in a recent Forum involving general versus specific wisdom. The enlightenment discussion also bothered me and was somehow connected to an extended view that may seem irrelevant to where I am right now, versus a particular focus.

Eventually something like an insight was handed to me. It seems there is an over-arching direction or influence, much like the magnetic field that influences a magnetic compass that can similarly give orientation to our life. Similar to this is an earth electric field by which birds and possibly mammals can recognize direction, and therefore guidance. What occurred to me was that the teachings of Rose or Ramana, a talk by Tyler, a discussion of life after enlightenment or even the quip of a grandson may have specific pieces that will align to an overall field effect of some prioritized direction, each perhaps like a bread crumb of guidance which becomes recognizable, pointing me toward or away from something along the field. And so the familiar problem again arises: if there are lines or fields of influence, to where are they pointing me, what part of me is attracted, and do I have a choice?

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From Michael R, regarding the question: “What’s your feeling or conviction about personal willpower?” at the end of the Founder’s Wisdom section of last month’s Forum:

My feeling and conviction about “willpower” is that it’s simply a word applied to a combination of capacities within a “person.” Willpower is the capacity for tension, specifically, the capacity to withstand discomfort, generally with a longer term/higher aim in mind. This capacity takes energy unless it has reached the level of unconscious habit, so it makes sense that willpower can dwindle as someone is drained of energy. 

Individual will is an illusion, at least that’s what experience has shown me thus far. Things happen and I see no evidence that they could ever have happened otherwise. You could break the illusion down to three levels, ultimately landing on the more true statement that still isn’t quite right. On the first level you have belief in individual will. On level two it is realized that everything is simply a reaction, there’s no individual will anywhere. But then further, it’s realized that reaction implies a kind of cause and effect, a real past and present, and a sort of mechanical fixed structure, all of which are further beliefs applied to direct experience. Finally, on the third level, there’s just what’s happening in the moment, which is completely “free,” not of an individual will, but in totality — it’s whole and spontaneous, unrelated to any relative structure of reaction that the mind might imagine. 

None of this means I stop seeking what I’m drawn towards, it’s not fatalism, it’s simply realizing that I can’t help myself. I do what I do, and I can’t do otherwise, until something changes like learning something new, or motivation arising, none of which is in my control. There are still reasons to wake up in the morning, desires to be filled, questions to answer, it’s just that life is seen from a different vantage point. 

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From a TAT friend, letting readers know about a magical lakeside yurt, a picturesque eco facility beside Lough Ree in County Roscommon, Ireland available for solitary retreats. See the Solitary Retreats page.

The Reader Commentary question for next month, the September TAT Forum, refers back to Shawn Pethel’s essay “Is There No Self?” above and his last no-self dialogue with an assigned “coach” at the now-defunct website:

What are your thoughts about the no-self theory?

Please  your response by the 25th of August, and indicate your preferred identification (the default is your first name and the initial letter of your last name). “Anonymous” and pen names are fine, too.

PS: What question(s) would you like to ask other TAT Forum readers?

Q: What are your thoughts on this month’s reader commentary? Please your feedback.

Richard Rose described a spiritual path as living one’s life aimed at finding the meaning of that life. Did you find anything relevant to your life or search in this month’s TAT Forum?

Thanks to Michael R. for this photo (not B&W) on an Icelandic black sand beach in the fog.

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Founder’s Wisdom

Richard Rose (1917-2005) established the TAT Foundation
in 1973 to encourage people to work together on what
he considered to be the “grand project” of spiritual work.

You Don’t Need Zen

Three additional Instagram slides (click on > half way down the image there). 

Quotes are from “Psychology of Zen: Science of Knowing” talk given at Ohio State University in 1977. A five-part transcription of the talk begins in the August 2024 TAT Forum.

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Q: What are your thoughts about “looking inside yourself with honesty”?

Definition of Terms

Index of many of the key terms and principles in Rose’s work, with brief definitions, from Richard Rose’s Psychology of the Observer: The Path to Reality Through the Self by John Kent.

Jacob’s Ladder © 2001 Richard Rose. See this transcript of a talk on the topic by Rose.

Homing Ground Update

… A spot on earth where people can do retreats and hold
meetings; where the emphasis is on friendship and the search.

January 2025:

As we look to 2025 for a new year of TAT Retreats and Friendship on the spiritual path, there are a few important updates to share. 

Since 2019 when we first moved into the current TAT Center, this home away from home has been developed and supported by many. Through donations, workdays, and the ongoing efforts of our caretaker, the property has served as a retreat center, a spiritual library, and a gathering place for friends. It would be difficult to sufficiently put into words how grateful we are for these efforts, contributions, and time together at the Hurdle Mills TAT Center, and for all who continue to support and have played a part in making the TAT Center a reality. 

To enhance the ability for TAT to provide a center for meetings and retreats, after much careful consideration, discussion, and engagement with TAT members for input, we have strategically decided that, while the current TAT Center is very good, it is not as well-suited for the future as we would like.  In the spring of 2025, the TAT Center will be for sale, and we will transition the 2025 quarterly TAT Meetings and Retreats to Claymont (Charles Town, WV) and other retreat facilities. A committee is actively looking at properties to find a future home for TAT. 

A unique piece of land with a purposefully built retreat center building, acreage for solitary cabins, and a modest caretaker home is the view we have in mind. A place that feels more like a quiet retreat center than a large suburban home, and one that requires less ongoing live-in maintenance than our current home are additional items that have been discussed. The net is cast widely, but we are focusing on the Appalachian Mountain range for property searches, seeking the right balance of solitude and accessibility.

The right property will come when it is meant to, and we look forward to that next chapter for TAT. In the meantime, many have expressed a fondness for the Claymont center, and we intend to hold retreats there until a new property for TAT is found.
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A very special thank you to all who have been involved in creating and supporting the Hurdle Mills TAT Center during the last five years, and likewise to those planning TAT’s future home. We look forward to the coming year of TAT Meetings and Retreats and very much hope to see you there.

In Friendship, 
Michael, Shawn, and Mike
[our current trustees]

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Readers’ favorite selections from seven years of issues.
Beyond Mind, Beyond Death is available at Amazon.com.

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